0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

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drkosy
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0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#1 Post by drkosy »

Recently compiled 0.4.10.1-rc3 and started a new game with gysache. As I settled a new planet away from supply I recognized that the new colony doesn't create any supply to other systems. Same behavior as scylor (bad supply vs. average supply for gysache). The planet doesn't have any special as the screenshot shows. Even after two turns no supply is created. So I ask myselve what the difference is between bad and average supply :?:

Thanks for your great support for newbies like me :D

Edit: Forgot to add screenshots...
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wobbly
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#2 Post by wobbly »

Looks like a large planet? (-1 supply). Mouse over the little icon with 3 cubes & it should tell you the supply modifiers.

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drkosy
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#3 Post by drkosy »

Thanks for the quick reply. You are totally right, it's a large planet with -1 supply. :oops:
I read that in the pedia but didn't recognize that till now...

But there is one question left: Great supply means +2, average +1, is there anything like "good" supply?

defaultuser
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#4 Post by defaultuser »

As a note, you can check the supply by hovering over the supply icon of the planet. It will give you the factors that determine supply and give you the max and predicted supply values.

Ophiuchus
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#5 Post by Ophiuchus »

drkosy wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:23 pm But there is one question left: Great supply means +2, average +1, is there anything like "good" supply?
No "good supply". But "good fuel (+1)" exists.

Great supply is about as powerful as great fuel (+2 fuel) it gives one extra hop when going out and back compared to average supply (+1)/fuel (+0).
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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drkosy
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#6 Post by drkosy »

No "good supply". But "good fuel (+1)" exists.
Thanks for all you answers :) Now I know the game a little bit more :D

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LienRag
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#7 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:35 am
drkosy wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:23 pm But there is one question left: Great supply means +2, average +1, is there anything like "good" supply?
No "good supply". But "good fuel (+1)" exists.
For semantic coherence, shouldn't it be corrected ?
Either by renaming +2 supply to "Good supply" or by making "Great supply" +3...

Ophiuchus
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#8 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:08 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:35 am
drkosy wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:23 pm But there is one question left: Great supply means +2, average +1, is there anything like "good" supply?
No "good supply". But "good fuel (+1)" exists.
For semantic coherence, shouldn't it be corrected ?
Either by renaming +2 supply to "Good supply" or by making "Great supply" +3...
No. Semantic (meaning) is coherent.

+2 fuel are similar to +1 supply. Good supply would be +1.5 supply.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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drkosy
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#9 Post by drkosy »

+2 fuel are similar to +1 supply. Good supply would be +1.5 supply.
Depends on your point of view: bad fuel is -0,5, bad supply is no bonus so +0 :idea:

Bad fuel reduces the range by 0.5 jumps, bad supply by 2 (compared with medium planet, average supply), so semantic can't be compared for the "bad" statement. If I did get it right...

Ophiuchus
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#10 Post by Ophiuchus »

drkosy wrote: Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:10 pm
+2 fuel are similar to +1 supply. Good supply would be +1.5 supply.
Depends on your point of view: bad fuel is -0,5, bad supply is no bonus so +0 :idea:

Bad fuel reduces the range by 0.5 jumps, bad supply by 2 (compared with medium planet, average supply), so semantic can't be compared for the "bad" statement. If I did get it right...
Yes, bad supply has a irregular/worse stepping than bad fuel (or any other bad trait actually). Supply is the only trait which has does not have such fine-grained measure. The consistent thing to do would be to rename BAD_SUPPLY to VERY_BAD_SUPPLY now that Oberlus introduced some VERY_BAD_* traits.

Also one could check out the effects of VERY_BAD_FUEL (-2 fuel max). Currently this would be inappropiate for starting species (e.g. Scylior) - as the consensus reached was that ships should be able to jump back into supply (which means at least 1 max fuel) and a novice player by mistake could field large basic hull ships without extra fuel tank (i.e. 0 max fuel).
I would prefer that fuel is consumed if you jump out of supply - zero fuel would make sense there without bad side effects, the ship would only be able to jump along supply connections.

edit1: actually research, influence, and industry species effects currently have the following multipliers

Code: Select all

VERY_BAD_MULTIPLIER
'''0.5'''

BAD_MULTIPLIER
'''0.75'''

AVERAGE_MULTIPLIER
'''1.0'''

GOOD_MULTIPLIER
'''1.5'''

GREAT_MULTIPLIER
'''2.0'''

ULTIMATE_MULTIPLIER
'''3.0'''
population, troops, and pilot traits scale linear. detection scales mostly linear. stockpiling is different.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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drkosy
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Re: 0.4.10.1 Bad vs. average supply

#11 Post by drkosy »

In principal it's just how to name things. Personally for me it would be all right if the buffs and nervs are named different (e.g. good supply + 2, good pop +0.25). That's different for others and there will always be questions. Should you name supply +2 as "good supply" one may ask why there isn't anything like "ultimate supply". So maybe the best thing is to leave it as it is :)
I would prefer that fuel is consumed if you jump out of supply - zero fuel would make sense there without bad side effects, the ship would only be able to jump along supply connections.
I would like to have it that way. It would be more logically. In the pedia it tells you, the ships are refuel instantly while arriving in a system with supply connection. That means the fuel is consumed but refilled in systems connected. If you jump out of supply it should need fuel. If you take that serious a ship without fuel can't jump at all, but you can always have some inconsistent things :mrgreen:

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