Big galaxy try

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Scara
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Big galaxy try

#1 Post by Scara » Wed May 10, 2017 10:11 am

Hello,

2017-05-04.9a775f1 is the version. I just played a 5000 systems game with 40 ai and low planet density. I was surprised about the good speed. Thought I wouldn't come far but it worked well, now reached turn 250 it's getting a bit laggy but no surprise on my old machine. Speed greatly increased since my first big game attempts. At some point, the time saving the game took longer than the time to calculate the turn.
At the turning to 251 it took about 5min to calculate the new round and another 6min autosave. During autosave it get's a bit laggy. Later Turn 286 I quit because the speed decreased further to 19 min (8min turn calc, 11min saving).
I tried to show fps, but I couldn't find where it's displayed.
Ah, when exiting the game I realized my 8gb ram where exhausted and I was running on slow swap... anyway as it's not recommend to play that big maps I needn't wonder. The savegame has 43 MB and won about 300kb each turn.
At the beginning I tried to make peace with the ai. The game segfaulted out every attempt I made.
I just tried that again in a normal sized game, seg fault aswell.
Why is the research cost for Singularity of Transendence so gigantic?
SoT.jpg
SoT.jpg (60.69 KiB) Viewed 396 times
Otherwise nothing to complain and the AI is working grrreat!

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Big galaxy try

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed May 10, 2017 10:43 am

Scara wrote:At some point, the time saving the game took longer than the time to calculate the turn.
Switch to an uncompressed save format. Probably binary is best, as the uncompressed save for a game that big would be massive.

Does the RAM usage drop if you save, quit, and reload the game? I'd be surprised if it's actually using up all the system memory if not leaking memory over many turns, as I generally find that FreeOrion uses relatively little RAM for reasonable-sized galaxies...

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Oberlus
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Re: Big galaxy try

#3 Post by Oberlus » Wed May 10, 2017 10:45 am

Wow, that's a huge game, well done (for you to try and for the developers to achieve this more-than-reasonable performance).
Scara wrote:Why is the research cost for Singularity of Transendence so gigantic?
Once you research it you "win" the game, so you don't want to make it easy. But it is not that gigantic in relation with what your RPs can hit. I've had 4k RPs in a 250 systems' game when I had half of the map fully colonised, so sitting on my hands and clicking next turn for the following 50 turns could gave me the victory message.

Scara
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Re: Big galaxy try

#4 Post by Scara » Wed May 10, 2017 11:08 am

Oberlus wrote:clicking next turn for the following 50 turns could gave me the victory message.
Thing is that 250k is one of the twenty rp blocks, all together 5M rp and 1000 turns to win with more than 4k rp/turn, what I think is a bit long.
I would prefer something between 250k-750k.

Scara
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Re: Big galaxy try

#5 Post by Scara » Wed May 10, 2017 12:36 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Scara wrote:At some point, the time saving the game took longer than the time to calculate the turn.
Switch to an uncompressed save format. Probably binary is best, as the uncompressed save for a game that big would be massive.

Does the RAM usage drop if you save, quit, and reload the game? I'd be surprised if it's actually using up all the system memory if not leaking memory over many turns, as I generally find that FreeOrion uses relatively little RAM for reasonable-sized galaxies...
Ah found the restart button and there is the FPS display =), show 8 FPS, argh. When it's saving the game 1-3 ;-).
Well this special game is CPU intense, memory as well, looked in the processes and found 50 freeorionca scopes all with about 100MB memory... active when calculating the next turn.
I guess then saving takes so much time, because it's compressing and using the swap combined
After reopening the game I looked at my systemreport. Sadly I didn't look there before exiting, but it took at least 3 min clearing space before bringing up the game menu.
Here are some data (GB) when finished loading the turns:
Turn RAM Swap
286 6,1 0,52
287 5,6 2,2
288 5,9 2,3
289 5,6 2,8
But I can't tell if this is to much for this game settings or if it stacks further...
Next I'll try the binary save format, thanks for the tip!
Edit:
To compare, Idle I have:
RAM Swap
1 0,8

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MatGB
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Re: Big galaxy try

#6 Post by MatGB » Wed May 10, 2017 2:10 pm

Re Singularity, it's a placeholder 'win' condition until we agree a proper not-boring tech victory condition/system, it was a lot cheaper, so much so I accidentally acheived it more than once while trying for conquest, Dilvish upped the cost to gigantic in order that it wasn't easy: it would be deathly dull to be playing a multiplayer game then someone 'wins' because they had higher RP output and didn't turn all their worlds to production.

We've talked about lots of ideas for replacing/upgrading it,a ll of which would need to inform opponents that you were on the way (eg building a Megalith, and a Transcendence Bridge, and a Monument to Exodus, of whatever). It's probably too high, but it was too low, and I'd rather the former than the latter.
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Scara
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Re: Big galaxy try

#7 Post by Scara » Wed May 10, 2017 5:00 pm

MatGB wrote:would be deathly dull to be playing a multiplayer game then someone 'wins' because they had higher RP output and didn't turn all their worlds to production.

We've talked about lots of ideas for replacing/upgrading it,a ll of which would need to inform opponents that you were on the way (eg building a Megalith, and a Transcendence Bridge, and a Monument to Exodus, of whatever). It's probably too high, but it was too low, and I'd rather the former than the latter.
Good explanation, like the idea of a sort nexus bridge building, that reminds me of the collective thought network, that has a challenge to get it started! Something like that, or maybe involving more buildings or species coming to unity and may be interrupted in build when the conditions are broken. As it is the winning condition and the peak of research, it should be a tricky and intelligent challenge...

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Oberlus
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Re: Big galaxy try

#8 Post by Oberlus » Wed May 10, 2017 5:07 pm

Scara wrote:Thing is that 250k is one of the twenty rp blocks
Doh, you're right.
Anyhow, I've got it before turn 300 in a game a few days ago so it is definitively "easily" achievable if you are not losing militarily.

ovarwa
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Re: Big galaxy try

#9 Post by ovarwa » Wed May 10, 2017 9:34 pm

Both Civ and Alpha Centauri deal with this issue by making their "tech victory" also involve a lot of production. In the case of AC, the game also inflicts some side effects.

defaultuser
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Re: Big galaxy try

#10 Post by defaultuser » Thu May 11, 2017 12:41 am

I got my 4X start with venerable old Starweb. That had different player types with various criteria for winning. Everything was converted to points based on those.

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