Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.
Forum rules
Always mention the exact version of FreeOrion you are testing.

When reporting an issue regarding the AI, if possible provide the relevant AI log file and a save game file that demonstrates the issue.
Message
Author
User avatar
Oberlus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 665
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

#61 Post by Oberlus » Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:01 pm

Thank you, Dilvish. I'll be learning git to test all this.

User avatar
Oberlus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 665
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

#62 Post by Oberlus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:57 am

Quotes from Dilvish's PR in Github.
Dilvish-fo wrote:
Morlic-fo wrote:Did you test and verify that the AI successfully builds and uses colony ships as sly?
Yes, although it could be they are still making more outposts than would really be best, I'll continue trying to fine tune this a bit more.
In my experience, Sly-only empires must not build any outpost ship at all (unless they get less supply malus than right now).
Since they have no supply range, they can't build any colony building except for the few GGs that they can find in the systems directly adjacent to their homeworld system at start. So I only build colonisers.
For those systems where there are more than one GG (BTW, I never saw a system with three GGs) you can send a single coloniser and then build in there an outpost base and then the Sly colony building, but only if there are no enemies nearby that could colonise any of the other planets in that system, because then the Sly won't be able to build the colony building. So usually I can do that (outpost base+colony building) only before turn 50 or so (depends on systems/player), and the safest way to go is always to build colony bases in such multi-GG systems (so that you know it won't matter if another empire gets there before you finish the Sly colony building).

Ophiuchus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am

Re: Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

#63 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:59 am

Oberlus wrote:Quotes from Dilvish's PR in Github.
Dilvish-fo wrote:
Morlic-fo wrote:Did you test and verify that the AI successfully builds and uses colony ships as sly?
Yes, although it could be they are still making more outposts than would really be best, I'll continue trying to fine tune this a bit more.
In my experience, Sly-only empires must not build any outpost ship at all (unless they get less supply malus than right now).
Since they have no supply range, they can't build any colony building except for the few GGs that they can find in the systems directly adjacent to their homeworld system at start. So I only build colonisers.
For those systems where there are more than one GG (BTW, I never saw a system with three GGs) you can send a single coloniser and then build in there an outpost base and then the Sly colony building, but only if there are no enemies nearby that could colonise any of the other planets in that system, because then the Sly won't be able to build the colony building. So usually I can do that (outpost base+colony building) only before turn 50 or so (depends on systems/player), and the safest way to go is always to build colony bases in such multi-GG systems (so that you know it won't matter if another empire gets there before you finish the Sly colony building).
Also a similar experience. Where I also build outposts:

After researching the first orbital techs, i sometimes also added outposts to connect nearby planets to build a production powerhouse (supply line bonuses).

Sometimes also the map is so shitty that i need a refuel post somewhere for further exploration. So that sometimes gets an outpost. (Also usually at a place which is not interesting to enemies)
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

User avatar
Oberlus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 665
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

#64 Post by Oberlus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:28 am

Ophiuchus wrote:Also a similar experience. Where I also build outposts:

After researching the first orbital techs, i sometimes also added outposts to connect nearby planets to build a production powerhouse (supply line bonuses).

Sometimes also the map is so shitty that i need a refuel post somewhere for further exploration. So that sometimes gets an outpost. (Also usually at a place which is not interesting to enemies)
I would do that too if I'd plan to build military forces to defend those outposts from enemy invasion and to defend the supply lines from enemy blockades. But I don't do that, I play a fully stealthy empire that does not engage in any combat until late game, so I can't defend any outpost or supply line. I could keep those uninhabitated outposts stealthy and safe if I give highest priority to planetary stealth techs, but the enemies would still beak my supply lines with armed ships. I prefer to give highest priority to increasing production and research output, to reach faster the late game military technology. At that point, my "peaceful" Sly, sick of having to hide from the other unpleasant and violent species that were killing harmless colonisers and scouts, begin to remove all population from all non-Sly planets using the last tier bombard weapons, until the whole galaxy is really peaceful (total anhihilation except for any natives that happen to be not conquered by any enemy). I don't even conquer any non GG planet except to get the "victory" condition.

The powerhose I don't need it because I keep building colonisers in every GG (and expanding in every direction) while the GGs central to my empire are focused on researching (always with adaptive automation).

For the refuelling on shitty maps, I am just patient (until I get better fuel parts). In maps with systems/player<15 it can be annoying, since very soon the GGs I am getting are already in systems with enemy colonies that won't let me refuel from the GG. But then I'll be soon developing either better fuel parts, space elevators or stealthy armed ships than open the way for the colonisers.

Ophiuchus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 506
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:01 am

Re: Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

#65 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:14 pm

Oberlus wrote:..I play a fully stealthy empire that does not engage in any combat until late game, so I can't defend any outpost or supply line.
The fuel point outposts i hope not to have to defend (because the enemy is not interested) or by the time the enemy captures it it has fulfilled its purpose (established colonies on the far side).
my "peaceful" Sly, sick of having to hide from the other unpleasant and violent species that were killing harmless colonisers and scouts, begin to remove all population from all non-Sly planets using the last tier bombard weapons, until the whole galaxy is really peaceful (total anhihilation except for any natives that happen to be not conquered by any enemy). I don't even conquer any non GG planet except to get the "victory" condition.
Interesting. I never use bombard weapons.
The powerhose I don't need it because I keep building colonisers in every GG (and expanding in every direction) while the GGs central to my empire are focused on researching (always with adaptive automation).
With me the central sometimes turns powerhouse containing a native species. Usually I keep the enemies too far away to be directly interested in the mostly unprotected area.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

User avatar
Oberlus
Vacuum Dragon
Posts: 665
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:25 pm

Re: Feedback Imperial Stockpile (round 3) - Limited Input

#66 Post by Oberlus » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:22 pm

Ophiuchus wrote:In my mind, supply lines can interrupt other supply lines.
But supply lines cant interrupt any of your ships, so your ships should be able to get a refill from the planet.
So this should not be a Sly thing.

edit: general out-of-supply refilling is an orthogonal topic and could be a Sly thing
Ophiuchus wrote:local refueling for hidden ships or special refueling for sly
Before, my preference was for the "realistic" allow-hidden-ships-to-refuel-from-(hidden?)-planets to apply to any species, and I saw the easier-refueling-for-Sly as optional. After more playtesting I've changed my mind. Since other stealthy species (Laenfa, Trith) can use their colonizers to get stealthy colonies that do provide supply to other ships, they don't need (or need it less) special refueling mechanism. On the other hand, Sly do need it until mid/late game.
So I guess the special trait for Sly (to be defined) is the way to go.
For example, let them refuel in any system with an allied or unowned GG.

Post Reply