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Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:06 am
by Oberlus
Playing 0.4.8 RC1

Scylor have great research (200%) and good population (125%), no more traits.
I can have subterranean hab., adaptive automation, robos, laser 1 and fighters by turn 30 (standard galaxy settings). By turn 40 those puny Egassem are crashing robofrigates against my 1 ship fleet in orbit of a single planets (def 5).
Playing this way (crazy on research, no industry focus at all), it is easy with Scylior, way easier than with other good/great research species.
I think I could even add [[NO_INDUSTRY]] to them and still be easy to win.

If it is not intended to have a better-than-average playable species, I suggest giving some bad traits to Scylor for 0.4.8 final release.

Chato already has great res., avg. ind. and bad troops (att.&def), so making Scylior bad troops as well would be boring.
There are many good res. species (2 playable, 4 natives) so I'd rather prefer to stick to the great res. here for Scylior (for 2 playable and 1 native species).

So I think these could be appropriate bad traits for Scylior:
- Bad supply.
- Bad detection.
- Bad stockpiling.

None of these are crippling, and all can be circumvented using their great research, so that they are just a bit of a slowdown for expansion.
I don't think these would really make Scylior balanced, just less OP.

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 9:49 am
by Vezzra
Sounds reasonable. I'd definitely consider having such an overpowered playable species a bug. Can you open a github issue for this? So we can properly track this as a necessary fix for 0.4.8.

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 10:17 am
by Morlic
Scylior start on an medium instead of a large planet like all the other species (which probably should be documented somewhere). I agree that it's not enough to balance the species, though.

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:06 am
by Vezzra
Morlic wrote:(which probably should be documented somewhere)
This.

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:29 am
by Oberlus
Vezzra wrote:Sounds reasonable. I'd definitely consider having such an overpowered playable species a bug. Can you open a github issue for this? So we can properly track this as a necessary fix for 0.4.8.
Done: https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/issues/2162

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2018 11:50 am
by Vezzra
Thanks!

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:51 pm
by Ophiuchus
I have a gut feeling that AI will have a lot more problems with a bad_supply bad_stockpiling species than a human player.

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:33 pm
by Oberlus
Ophiuchus wrote:I have a gut feeling that AI will have a lot more problems with a bad_supply bad_stockpiling species than a human player.
Maybe. But I saw AI Sly abuse outposts to early overcome their no-supply, so I guess AI Scylior would do the same?

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:53 am
by Ophiuchus
Oberlus wrote:
Ophiuchus wrote:I have a gut feeling that AI will have a lot more problems with a bad_supply bad_stockpiling species than a human player.
Maybe. But I saw AI Sly abuse outposts to early overcome their no-supply, so I guess AI Scylior would do the same?
Dunno. Just thought we should have a look at how AI Scylior fares.

Does bad_stockpiling vs average_stockpiling actually make a difference (after applying the your intended changes to stockpile focus)?

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 3:04 pm
by Oberlus
Ophiuchus wrote:Does bad_stockpiling vs average_stockpiling actually make a difference (after applying the your intended changes to stockpile focus)?
With the suggested changes IDK, had to playtest that yet, but I guess it wouldn't. With current mechanics it certainly does not make a difference. With average_stockpiling you just don't rely on it for anything (not early game at least).
Bad supply is one less range than average, that means losing 1 of 6 or 7 max range from homeworld, which I think should be just a hinder for them. If they happen to be in a very sparse part of the galaxy then they can improve supply, fuel or stockpile, the first one being better unless you are really away form colony candidates and can't make any outposts in the way to resupply (I don't know if that situation is even possible in any galaxy setting).

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:27 pm
by Dilvish
Oberlus wrote:Bad supply is one less range than average, that means losing 1 of 6 or 7 max range from homeworld, which I think should be just a hinder for them.
In the beginning and midgame, I think bad_supply is a pretty significant malus.

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:38 pm
by Oberlus
I guess I got used to the Sly lack of supply :roll:

Re: Nerf Scylior a bit?

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:34 pm
by marioxcc
I agree that Scylor seem to be overpowered compared to, for example, Human. Human is average on everything while Scylor has some good traits and the rest are average.