Exobots
Moderator: Oberlus
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Always mention the exact version of FreeOrion you are testing.
When reporting an issue regarding the AI, if possible provide the relevant AI log file and a save game file that demonstrates the issue.
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- Juggernaut
- Posts: 854
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Exobots
In the Change Log for 0.4.10, it stated:
Rebalanced Exobots to be adequate on all planet types and very bad at research
However, they are now:
−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
Rebalanced Exobots to be adequate on all planet types and very bad at research
However, they are now:
−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
Re: Exobots
documentation bugdefaultuser wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:44 am Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Re: Exobots
Which is why it would be good if more people reviewed the changelog PRs. Compiling the changelog is quite tedious and you can easily miss something when you dig through hundreds/thousands of commit messages. Geoff is doing that every time single-handedly, he can't catch everything...
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- Juggernaut
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Re: Exobots
So they are supposed to be downgraded in industry as well as research?Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:00 amdocumentation bugdefaultuser wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:44 am Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
Re: Exobots
Yes, bad industry (down from average), very bad population -50% (down from average) and bad supply (down from average), IIRC.defaultuser wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 pmSo they are supposed to be downgraded in industry as well as research?Ophiuchus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:00 amdocumentation bugdefaultuser wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:44 am Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
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- Juggernaut
- Posts: 854
- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Re: Exobots
The Pedia says, and matches what I'm seeing, is:Oberlus wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:47 pmYes, bad industry (down from average), very bad population -50% (down from average) and bad supply (down from average), IIRC.defaultuser wrote: ↑Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 pm So they are supposed to be downgraded in industry as well as research?
−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
− Bad Population: 75%
− Bad Supply: no bonus
− Bad Defensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Offensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Pilots: Base damage per ship weapon reduced by one level.
The 50% industry seems odd to me.
Re: Exobots
Ah, correct.defaultuser wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:13 am The Pedia says, and matches what I'm seeing, is:
−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
− Bad Population: 75%
− Bad Supply: no bonus
− Bad Defensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Offensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Pilots: Base damage per ship weapon reduced by one level.
The 50% industry seems odd to me.
Giving them bad industry (instead of very bad) could be an option. But they needed a huge nerf to compensate for the adequate-everywhere, otherwise main population of every empire would be Exobots. And the reason for making them adequate everywhere was to help balance starting conditions of empires in multiplayer games, where luck on available colonizable planets was too decisive.
Re: Exobots
Am I to understand that the pedia description of the Exobots is incorrect? If yes, then a fix for that could go into a bugfix release for 0.4.10 - it's already certain that there is going to be one.
Re: Exobots
The only incorrection is in the changelog. https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... T.focs.txt
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- Juggernaut
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Re: Exobots
Right, the play seems to match the Pedia. I wasn't expecting the downgrade to industry, so that was a surprise. Definitely a motivation to research Concentration Camps, because when you get a better option for most planets, exobots need to go.Oberlus wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:57 amThe only incorrection is in the changelog. https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... T.focs.txt
Re: Exobots
For me personally I use Exobot almost only to settle Asteroid belts. Therefore I think the nerv was a little to much. Asteroids still are "poor" for them which means you really have to think if it's worth spending PP...
I didn't play many games but every time I finished research on exobot I already had better options for colonization, except asteroid belts. But as soon as you have artificial planet it's better to change all of them (except of one's with specials). For me the "bad population" with missing boosts would be the reason to look for other species.
I suggest:
- bad industry
- asteroid belt adequat
- all other like now
- artificial planets on asteroid belts become small planets (instead of tiny)
That means artificial planets would still be an interesting option on asteroids but not completely make exobots obsolet.
I guess that wouldn't be to much overpowering...
I didn't play many games but every time I finished research on exobot I already had better options for colonization, except asteroid belts. But as soon as you have artificial planet it's better to change all of them (except of one's with specials). For me the "bad population" with missing boosts would be the reason to look for other species.
I suggest:
- bad industry
- asteroid belt adequat
- all other like now
- artificial planets on asteroid belts become small planets (instead of tiny)
That means artificial planets would still be an interesting option on asteroids but not completely make exobots obsolet.
I guess that wouldn't be to much overpowering...
As far as I see, the pedia links to the game data. I just changed exobots a bit for testing (edited scripting/species/SP_EXOBOT.focs.txt) and the pedia showed the changed data.The Pedia says, and matches what I'm seeing, is:
−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
− Bad Population: 75%
− Bad Supply: no bonus
− Bad Defensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Offensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Pilots: Base damage per ship weapon reduced by one level.
Want some fresh experience? Try Kosymod
Re: Exobots
It's always worth unless you have some other species to occupy belts with better production.
Not my experience in general. I rush Exobots if I have interesting planets to use with them, which happens often when playing with low or no natives, and sometimes just because of unlucky starts.I didn't play many games but every time I finished research on exobot I already had better options for colonization, except asteroid belts.
I do that for GGs when no Sly in the Galaxy, if got PP to spare, same cost than doing for belts but much better return (Huge planet hits the 70 pop easy). It's not that common that you can colonize early on every planet on sight (must be very lucky or have plenty of natives around).But as soon as you have artificial planet it's better to change all of them (except of one's with specials).
It would be OP, IMO.For me the "bad population" with missing boosts would be the reason to look for other species.
I suggest:
- bad industry
- asteroid belt adequat
- all other like now
- artificial planets on asteroid belts become small planets (instead of tiny)
That means artificial planets would still be an interesting option on asteroids but not completely make exobots obsolet.
I guess that wouldn't be to much overpowering...
Asteroid belts adequate would make Exobots a must early on, since belts are common. I don't like the idea of making belt so easily accessible. Making them bad industry instead of very bad is an option, but there is now a policy to improve their industry output.
With art. planet on belts making a 2 size planet, Exobots would be never more interesting on belts (except the one for the special or for asteroid shipyards). I like making asteroid belts convert to small planets.
Re: Exobots
O.K. I trust in your experience on playtesting For me it was more a guess than really testingIt would be OP, IMO.
Nice that you agree with meWith art. planet on belts making a 2 size planet, Exobots would be never more interesting on belts (except the one for the special or for asteroid shipyards). I like making asteroid belts convert to small planets.
At least I would like to see some other way to recycle Exobots than to destroy them in concentraition camps It's just be flavoring but I don't like these things...
Perhaps it should be possible to upgrade Exobots in midgame one level and in endgame another level. That should cost a lot of RP to make it hard to rush it.
Want some fresh experience? Try Kosymod
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- Juggernaut
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- Joined: Wed Aug 26, 2015 6:15 pm
Re: Exobots
As long as you get back your investment, Exobots on other planets makes sense.
Re: Exobots
Same for me. Never use concentration camps. We could provide some other option besides concentration camps and evacuation - as exobots are artificial and not as complex as "full" species dissassembling those "into the matrix" could be an option. Game-wise you would not have to research concentration camps for that but get it either directly or e.g. when you research the sentient AI techdrkosy wrote: ↑Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:01 pm At least I would like to see some other way to recycle Exobots than to destroy them in concentraition camps It's just be flavoring but I don't like these things...
Perhaps it should be possible to upgrade Exobots in midgame one level and in endgame another level. That should cost a lot of RP to make it hard to rush it.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.
Look, ma... four combat bouts!
Look, ma... four combat bouts!