Exobots

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defaultuser
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Exobots

#1 Post by defaultuser »

In the Change Log for 0.4.10, it stated:

Rebalanced Exobots to be adequate on all planet types and very bad at research

However, they are now:

−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%

Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?

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Re: Exobots

#2 Post by Ophiuchus »

defaultuser wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:44 am Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
documentation bug
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Vezzra
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Re: Exobots

#3 Post by Vezzra »

Which is why it would be good if more people reviewed the changelog PRs. Compiling the changelog is quite tedious and you can easily miss something when you dig through hundreds/thousands of commit messages. Geoff is doing that every time single-handedly, he can't catch everything...

defaultuser
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Re: Exobots

#4 Post by defaultuser »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:00 am
defaultuser wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:44 am Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
documentation bug
So they are supposed to be downgraded in industry as well as research?

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Oberlus
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Re: Exobots

#5 Post by Oberlus »

defaultuser wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 6:00 am
defaultuser wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 4:44 am Was it intended to downgrade industry like that? If so, why wasn't it in the log?
documentation bug
So they are supposed to be downgraded in industry as well as research?
Yes, bad industry (down from average), very bad population -50% (down from average) and bad supply (down from average), IIRC.

defaultuser
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Re: Exobots

#6 Post by defaultuser »

Oberlus wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:47 pm
defaultuser wrote: Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:33 pm So they are supposed to be downgraded in industry as well as research?
Yes, bad industry (down from average), very bad population -50% (down from average) and bad supply (down from average), IIRC.
The Pedia says, and matches what I'm seeing, is:

−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
− Bad Population: 75%
− Bad Supply: no bonus
− Bad Defensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Offensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Pilots: Base damage per ship weapon reduced by one level.

The 50% industry seems odd to me.

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Oberlus
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Re: Exobots

#7 Post by Oberlus »

defaultuser wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 12:13 am The Pedia says, and matches what I'm seeing, is:

−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
− Bad Population: 75%
− Bad Supply: no bonus
− Bad Defensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Offensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Pilots: Base damage per ship weapon reduced by one level.

The 50% industry seems odd to me.
Ah, correct.
Giving them bad industry (instead of very bad) could be an option. But they needed a huge nerf to compensate for the adequate-everywhere, otherwise main population of every empire would be Exobots. And the reason for making them adequate everywhere was to help balance starting conditions of empires in multiplayer games, where luck on available colonizable planets was too decisive.

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Vezzra
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Re: Exobots

#8 Post by Vezzra »

Am I to understand that the pedia description of the Exobots is incorrect? If yes, then a fix for that could go into a bugfix release for 0.4.10 - it's already certain that there is going to be one.

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Re: Exobots

#9 Post by Oberlus »

Vezzra wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:22 am Am I to understand that the pedia description of the Exobots is incorrect? If yes, then a fix for that could go into a bugfix release for 0.4.10 - it's already certain that there is going to be one.
The only incorrection is in the changelog. https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... T.focs.txt

defaultuser
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Re: Exobots

#10 Post by defaultuser »

Oberlus wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:57 am
Vezzra wrote: Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:22 am Am I to understand that the pedia description of the Exobots is incorrect? If yes, then a fix for that could go into a bugfix release for 0.4.10 - it's already certain that there is going to be one.
The only incorrection is in the changelog. https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... T.focs.txt
Right, the play seems to match the Pedia. I wasn't expecting the downgrade to industry, so that was a surprise. Definitely a motivation to research Concentration Camps, because when you get a better option for most planets, exobots need to go.

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drkosy
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Re: Exobots

#11 Post by drkosy »

For me personally I use Exobot almost only to settle Asteroid belts. Therefore I think the nerv was a little to much. Asteroids still are "poor" for them which means you really have to think if it's worth spending PP...
I didn't play many games but every time I finished research on exobot I already had better options for colonization, except asteroid belts. But as soon as you have artificial planet it's better to change all of them (except of one's with specials). For me the "bad population" with missing boosts would be the reason to look for other species.
I suggest:
- bad industry
- asteroid belt adequat
- all other like now

- artificial planets on asteroid belts become small planets (instead of tiny)
That means artificial planets would still be an interesting option on asteroids but not completely make exobots obsolet.

I guess that wouldn't be to much overpowering...
The Pedia says, and matches what I'm seeing, is:

−− Very bad Industry: 50%
−− Very bad Research: 50%
− Bad Population: 75%
− Bad Supply: no bonus
− Bad Defensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Offensive Ground Troops: 50%
− Bad Pilots: Base damage per ship weapon reduced by one level.
As far as I see, the pedia links to the game data. I just changed exobots a bit for testing (edited scripting/species/SP_EXOBOT.focs.txt) and the pedia showed the changed data.
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Re: Exobots

#12 Post by Oberlus »

drkosy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 5:09 pm For me personally I use Exobot almost only to settle Asteroid belts. Therefore I think the nerv was a little to much. Asteroids still are "poor" for them which means you really have to think if it's worth spending PP...
It's always worth unless you have some other species to occupy belts with better production.

I didn't play many games but every time I finished research on exobot I already had better options for colonization, except asteroid belts.
Not my experience in general. I rush Exobots if I have interesting planets to use with them, which happens often when playing with low or no natives, and sometimes just because of unlucky starts.
But as soon as you have artificial planet it's better to change all of them (except of one's with specials).
I do that for GGs when no Sly in the Galaxy, if got PP to spare, same cost than doing for belts but much better return (Huge planet hits the 70 pop easy). It's not that common that you can colonize early on every planet on sight (must be very lucky or have plenty of natives around).
For me the "bad population" with missing boosts would be the reason to look for other species.
I suggest:
- bad industry
- asteroid belt adequat
- all other like now

- artificial planets on asteroid belts become small planets (instead of tiny)
That means artificial planets would still be an interesting option on asteroids but not completely make exobots obsolet.

I guess that wouldn't be to much overpowering...
It would be OP, IMO.
Asteroid belts adequate would make Exobots a must early on, since belts are common. I don't like the idea of making belt so easily accessible. Making them bad industry instead of very bad is an option, but there is now a policy to improve their industry output.
With art. planet on belts making a 2 size planet, Exobots would be never more interesting on belts (except the one for the special or for asteroid shipyards). I like making asteroid belts convert to small planets.

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drkosy
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Re: Exobots

#13 Post by drkosy »

It would be OP, IMO.
O.K. I trust in your experience on playtesting :D For me it was more a guess than really testing :oops:
With art. planet on belts making a 2 size planet, Exobots would be never more interesting on belts (except the one for the special or for asteroid shipyards). I like making asteroid belts convert to small planets.
Nice that you agree with me :)

At least I would like to see some other way to recycle Exobots than to destroy them in concentraition camps :cry: It's just be flavoring but I don't like these things...
Perhaps it should be possible to upgrade Exobots in midgame one level and in endgame another level. That should cost a lot of RP to make it hard to rush it. :?:
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defaultuser
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Re: Exobots

#14 Post by defaultuser »

As long as you get back your investment, Exobots on other planets makes sense.

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Re: Exobots

#15 Post by Ophiuchus »

drkosy wrote: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:01 pm At least I would like to see some other way to recycle Exobots than to destroy them in concentraition camps :cry: It's just be flavoring but I don't like these things...
Perhaps it should be possible to upgrade Exobots in midgame one level and in endgame another level. That should cost a lot of RP to make it hard to rush it. :?:
Same for me. Never use concentration camps. We could provide some other option besides concentration camps and evacuation - as exobots are artificial and not as complex as "full" species dissassembling those "into the matrix" could be an option. Game-wise you would not have to research concentration camps for that but get it either directly or e.g. when you research the sentient AI tech
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