Testing Government and Influence

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#121 Post by Geoff the Medio »

drkosy wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:53 amMost of the influence boosting policies aren't viable for me: I played gysache in a universe with a lot of empty space an monster guarded systems at my starting point. So centralisation would have killed my supply-support and actually would have cost more influence that it would have brought. Environmentalism is to late in the game, as I reached terraforming I had enough influence. Diversity is hard to reach because you have to catch some natives with means -1 IP for their homeworld.
Could add a low-cost or free to adopt policy that gives a small boost to capital influence, but not much else. Would be useful for early game influence but fall off by the midgame. Similar policies for research, industry, or stockpiling might also work...

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human2
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#122 Post by human2 »

I played a quick game with 50 systems and have a few more comments.

Exobots use more infrastructure than they are worth. I no longer use them and if I take over a planet with them I have to evacuate them.

My humans end up all focused on influence.

I didn't know outposts use infrastructure because it shows a 0 in the planet view. I won a game but kept playing to try things out. I tried to see if I could get influence above 0. I thought if I improved supply by building outposts that would do it, but each outpost ended up making it decrease.

I keep mixing up "infrastructure" and "influence". I'm not sure which term is correct.

I tried to use government policies but when I add one, the influence points goes so negative I have no idea what they are suppose to even do.

I couldn't set government policies after the game was ended.

Abandoned outposts can't be resettled or invaded.

There's a bug in the research screen that when you click on a research focus then click on a tech the research focus has to be clicked twice to hide it again.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#123 Post by Geoff the Medio »

human2 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 4:25 amI keep mixing up "infrastructure" and "influence". I'm not sure which term is correct.
For what you're discussing, probably only "influence" applies.
I tried to see if I could get influence above 0. I thought if I improved supply by building outposts that would do it, but each outpost ended up making it decrease.
Supply networks do not generate influence (at least directly).
I tried to use government policies but when I add one, the influence points goes so negative I have no idea what they are suppose to even do.
What does "goes so negative" mean? Are you referring to just the cost to adopt a policy, or reduced influence generation over multiple turns after a policy is adopted?
I couldn't set government policies after the game was ended.
Not sure what "the game was ended" means or how one would do anything after ending a game...
Abandoned outposts can't be resettled or invaded.
Could you clarify what you mean by "abandoned outposts"?
There's a bug in the research screen that when you click on a research focus then click on a tech the research focus has to be clicked twice to hide it again.
Yes, it's been mentioned in a few threads and there is a github bug about it.

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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#124 Post by Ophiuchus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am [quote=human2 post_id=106082 time=1620102350 user_id=72845
Abandoned outposts can't be resettled or invaded.
Could you clarify what you mean by "abandoned outposts"?
This one I can clarify: if you abandon an outpost (by building the "abandon outpost" building), it "gets removed". So you should be able to outpost/colonize using a outpost/colony ship. (If not, it is a bug)
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Oberlus
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#125 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am
I couldn't set government policies after the game was ended.
Not sure what "the game was ended" means or how one would do anything after ending a game...
I guess he means after the "victory" sitrep.

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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#126 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am
I tried to use government policies but when I add one, the influence points goes so negative I have no idea what they are suppose to even do.
What does "goes so negative" mean? Are you referring to just the cost to adopt a policy, or reduced influence generation over multiple turns after a policy is adopted?
I'm not sure, but since you cannot adopt a policy when you don't have enough IP, for the influence stockpile to go negative it should be the latter: it goes negative over multiple turns after adoption.

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human2
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#127 Post by human2 »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am
I tried to see if I could get influence above 0. I thought if I improved supply by building outposts that would do it, but each outpost ended up making it decrease.
Supply networks do not generate influence (at least directly).
A lot of negative IP was because of weak capital supply. I don't really understand supply very well. I'm not sure if it's simply distance from the capital, or if it can be improved by building space elevators. I guess that's why I was experimenting, to see if I could negate this penalty.
Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am
I tried to use government policies but when I add one, the influence points goes so negative I have no idea what they are suppose to even do.
What does "goes so negative" mean? Are you referring to just the cost to adopt a policy, or reduced influence generation over multiple turns after a policy is adopted?
Ok, I just tried it and I think I know how I got this all wrong. I thought the cost for a policy was taken every turn but it looks like it's only taken once. This makes it much more affordable and probably usable.
Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am
I couldn't set government policies after the game was ended.
Not sure what "the game was ended" means or how one would do anything after ending a game...
By "end" I meant after a victory sitrep.
Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 7:34 am
Abandoned outposts can't be resettled or invaded.
Could you clarify what you mean by "abandoned outposts"?
I didn't try using an outpost. I assumed I could've invaded it or scrapped the "abandoned outpost" building to start over. I guess I thought this because the planet name was underlined because it had a shipyard and it made me think it was like an inhabited planet, even though the text was white. I just tried it and yes, I can start over with outpost ships.

It's really annoying that if a planet doesn't have 5 stability that production doesn't increase at all. Instead of being 0, I think the rate that production increases should just be slowed down.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#128 Post by Geoff the Medio »

human2 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:26 pm It's really annoying that if a planet doesn't have 5 stability that production doesn't increase at all. Instead of being 0, I think the rate that production increases should just be slowed down.
I could add a Colonial Bootstrapping economic policy that boosts resource meter growth independent of stability.
human2 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:26 pm By "end" I meant after a victory sitrep.
I don't think there is anything special that restricts policy manipulations after a victory sitrep is generated...
human2 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:26 pm Ok, I just tried it and I think I know how I got this all wrong. I thought the cost for a policy was taken every turn but it looks like it's only taken once. This makes it much more affordable and probably usable.
Would a different label in the description help? Ican't check now but I think it says "Cost to Adopt"... Should it be clearer in that text that it is nit a recurring cost once adopted?

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Oberlus
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#129 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:51 pm
human2 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:26 pm It's really annoying that if a planet doesn't have 5 stability that production doesn't increase at all. Instead of being 0, I think the rate that production increases should just be slowed down.
I could add a Colonial Bootstrapping economic policy that boosts resource meter growth independent of stability.
If a planet has 0<stability<5, meters will grow, just slower:
https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... macros#L10

I think stability modifiers need a review and rebalance, so that it is not so easy to incur into stabilities under 0. Xenophobics are now rather crippled when nearby other species.

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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#130 Post by wobbly »

Played a little using the default universe generation settings and monsters have become much nastier relative to the player. With the player growing much slower then in previous versions, they can get out of control very quickly. I had a drone factory spawn on a kraken's nest near my homeworld. I ended up with them all over the place and it became tedious having to dodge them all the time. Either the player progress needs to be sped up a bit, or monster spawns slowed down.

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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#131 Post by o01eg »

wobbly wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 6:38 pm Played a little using the default universe generation settings and monsters have become much nastier relative to the player. With the player growing much slower then in previous versions, they can get out of control very quickly. I had a drone factory spawn on a kraken's nest near my homeworld. I ended up with them all over the place and it became tedious having to dodge them all the time. Either the player progress needs to be sped up a bit, or monster spawns slowed down.
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#132 Post by Ophiuchus »

wobbly wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 6:38 pm Either the player progress needs to be sped up a bit, or monster spawns slowed down.
As a starter I think we should lower default research and build costs.
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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#133 Post by Oberlus »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 8:32 am
wobbly wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 6:38 pm Either the player progress needs to be sped up a bit, or monster spawns slowed down.
As a starter I think we should lower default research and build costs.
Current default cost factors are 2.0 for research and 1.0 for production. I think research has lost a lot of utility with influence in play so I am trying both factors set to 0.5 (so x2 to production and x4 to research).

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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#134 Post by Oberlus »

Geoff the Medio wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 10:22 am -Giving some species, including Fulver, Sly, and Laefna, +1 social policy slot
Imperial Palace should give one social slot per default.
Species trait for policy slots could be like this:
- Bad: -1 slot.
- Good: +1 slot.
- Great: +2 slots.
No Ultimate level for this trait.

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Re: Testing Government and Influence

#135 Post by Oberlus »

+5 stability for the preferred focus and -5 for the disliked ones seems excesive. For newly acquired species that forces you to stick to the preferred focus or never reach colonization threshold (e.g. Kobuntura, good influence, stick to stability 0 with influence focus, or to stability 2 if connected to capital). Maybe -2 for disliked foci.

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