Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

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Dragget
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Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#1 Post by Dragget »

Bugs
  • Window sizes aren't preserved on production screen and research screen: pedia window resize on those screens specifically, as well as the "Display" window at the bottom of the research screen. Each new version, I adjust everything to my liking for my screen resolution, and the game remembers everything else (as far as I can tell) and preserves those settings, but those three don't get saved. One other thing is the "messages" window on the main screen: I close it, but on opening a new game, it's always open. Size and position are preserved across new games and open/close application, but it always pops up and I have to close it.
  • When I rename a domesticated space monster, and it then evolves, the name gets replaced by another randomly generated one. Workaround is to wait until it's fully evolved before renaming it, but the custom name should be preserved, ideally.
  • EVERY time I exit to the main screen, I get a message about how a save is in progress with an option to exit anyway: it doesn't matter how long I have been in-game without clicking "next turn": I could even have walked away from the computer for 30 minutes before returning and I'll still get the message.
  • Monster Frequency set to HIGH, Number of Systems set to 175, Planet Density and Specials Frequency set to HIGH, and commonly I will only see 1/3 or 2/3 types of the tameable space monsters: when it's 2, it's most commonly Snowflakes and Kraken. RARELY, I'll get all three, and if I get Juggernauts, it's biased toward just those. IMO with those settings I should ALWAYS see all three types. With lower settings, it should be random, not biased towards one or two types.
  • Crash to desktop when I try to open the battle reports.
Issues
  • Bombardment has a significant research cost with a different type of bombardment for each metabolism (this part is potentially OK) but then the specific equipment slot is a unique part for each (not OK). The problem here is that you either have to design and build specific bombardment ships for each type, or have ships that are pretty much entirely devoted to JUST bombardment. Beyond that, bombardment is of limited use in the first place, since it can only target population, instead of what usually gets bombed in wars: infrastructure, troops, and military/defense installations. Essentially, it's a lot of research investment for almost no return: In most cases, I'd rather capture the planets with a large population so they can be productive sooner. Since I can't reduce the colony's defenses with it, it's pretty useless unless I completely wipe them out from orbit (which reduces it to an outpost, thereby indirectly reducing the defenses) but if I do that, it's only useful in that it reduces the number of troopships I need to capture the colony. Bombing down to an outpost just means I have to build it back up from scratch after I capture it, so in most situations, it's pointless.
  • Krill spawner as a reward from ancient ruins. I mean c'mon, really? You bring in a large fleet and finally defeat that badass guardian, and this is a booby prize for all that effort. Spawning wild krill occasionally accomplishes what, exactly? Why is this even in the game? If it spawned a plague of krill that was player-controllable, that would be fun. Even if it spawned a small krill swarm that the player could control (like Snowflakes/Kraken/Juggernauts) then the player could farm them and add them to the navy like with those others and that would be OK too.
  • Arc Disruptors pretty much make anything up to Death Rays 2 redundant. Damage is so high there's really no point switching it up until then.<<Edit: NM turns out they do significantly reduced damage vs. shields compared to others so that's a balancing factor.>>

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Oberlus
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#2 Post by Oberlus »

Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pm EVERY time I exit to the main screen, I get a message about how a save is in progress with an option to exit anyway: it doesn't matter how long I have been in-game without clicking "next turn": I could even have walked away from the computer for 30 minutes before returning and I'll still get the message.
That's not a bug. Players can do some stuff in their empire after turn start and exit before pressing "Turn", so an autosave when quitting makes much sense. Maybe it could detect if there was any change in game state and refrain from saving if there isn't any, but for me it causes no trouble, the save takes a few seconds most often, only long large games require a noticeably time.

In any case, you can disable game autosave at Options:
options_autosave.png
options_autosave.png (75.89 KiB) Viewed 552 times
Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pm Monster Frequency set to HIGH, Number of Systems set to 175, Planet Density and Specials Frequency set to HIGH, and commonly I will only see 1/3 or 2/3 types of the tameable space monsters: when it's 2, it's most commonly Snowflakes and Kraken. RARELY, I'll get all three, and if I get Juggernauts, it's biased toward just those. IMO with those settings I should ALWAYS see all three types. With lower settings, it should be random, not biased towards one or two types.
The monsters you find are decided using random number generators. Weaker monster nest (Snowflake) appears more often than the strongest (Juggernaut). There is no way you found a bias towards "if I get Juggernauts, it' biased towards those", only the opposite.

I think you can change that by adjusting the probability value in the files within the folder default/scripting/specials/planet/monster_nest.

Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pm Krill spawner as a reward from ancient ruins
Wow, I never got that, in hundreds of games with monsters enabled. You lucky!
I had to search for that in the FOCS files to know what is it. If I understand it correctly, it's some kind of krill nest that spawns randomly a krill monster if there is no krill monster in the system. Weird.

Dragget
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#3 Post by Dragget »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:23 amIn any case, you can disable game autosave.
Well thanks. I did not know I could disable that, now I will: it's pretty annoying.
Oberlus wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:23 amIThe monsters you find are decided using random number generators. Weaker monster nest (Snowflake) appears more often than the strongest (Juggernaut). There is no way you found a bias towards "if I get Juggernauts, it' biased towards those", only the opposite.
My point was that with monster frequency set to high and a larger galaxy, shouldn't that pretty much guarantee all 3 types? In my experience, I often get only 2/3 types or even just 1/3 even with those settings.
Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pmKrill spawner as a reward from ancient ruins
Oberlus wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 10:23 amWow, I never got that, in hundreds of games with monsters enabled. You lucky!
I had to search for that in the FOCS files to know what is it. If I understand it correctly, it's some kind of krill nest that spawns randomly a krill monster if there is no krill monster in the system. Weird.
It's a ship part. You add it to a design, and you can then park that ship somewhere and it will randomly spawn krill. Pretty much a booby-prize, as it's totally worthless in practice: the krill it generates are hostile, just like any other krill.

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#4 Post by Oberlus »

Dragget wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 2:00 pm My point was that with monster frequency set to high and a larger galaxy, shouldn't that pretty much guarantee all 3 types?
No. If you would have that guarantee, then it would mean random number generators were wrong. With default values in the FOCS files I pointed, chances are Snowflake nests will appear more often than Krakken, which will appear more often than Juggernaut. However, due to how randomness works, you can get a huge galaxy with no nest at all, a tiny galaxy with one of each nests, or whatever, just some cases more likely. A galaxy with all three nests is less probable than the sum of probabilities of having only snowflakes, only krakens, only juggernauts, krakens and snowflakes but not juggernauts, krakens and jugernauts but no snowflakes, jugernauts and snowflakes but not krakens.
How many games did you play to make your statistics? If you tell me you've played hundreds of games and you never found the three nests in the same galaxy, maybe there is a problem somewhere in the code.
Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pmKrill spawner as a reward from ancient ruins
It's a ship part. You add it to a design, and you can then park that ship somewhere and it will randomly spawn krill. Pretty much a booby-prize, as it's totally worthless in practice: the krill it generates are hostile, just like any other krill.
:shock:

I guess then it should generate owned krill then?

Edit: I'm pretty sure it's a bug. Code is

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... cs.txt#L36

It should be something like this:

Code: Select all

            effects = CreateShip designname = "SM_KRILL_1" empire = Source.Owner

Ophiuchus
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#5 Post by Ophiuchus »

Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pmKrill spawner as a reward from ancient ruins
It's a ship part. You add it to a design, and you can then park that ship somewhere and it will randomly spawn krill. Pretty much a booby-prize, as it's totally worthless in practice: the krill it generates are hostile, just like any other krill.
I think its for feeding krakens or something?
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#6 Post by Dragget »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:59 pmI think its for feeding krakens or something?
Nothing in the pedia about this. Is it possible this is left over from something planned in an earlier version but never implemented?

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#7 Post by Ophiuchus »

Dragget wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:33 am
Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:59 pmI think its for feeding krakens or something?
Nothing in the pedia about this. Is it possible this is left over from something planned in an earlier version but never implemented?
From the code:
//triple the chance of maturing when in a system with Krill
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Magnate
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#8 Post by Magnate »

Dragget wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:18 pm Issues
  • Bombardment has a significant research cost with a different type of bombardment for each metabolism (this part is potentially OK) but then the specific equipment slot is a unique part for each (not OK). The problem here is that you either have to design and build specific bombardment ships for each type, or have ships that are pretty much entirely devoted to JUST bombardment. Beyond that, bombardment is of limited use in the first place, since it can only target population, instead of what usually gets bombed in wars: infrastructure, troops, and military/defense installations. Essentially, it's a lot of research investment for almost no return: In most cases, I'd rather capture the planets with a large population so they can be productive sooner. Since I can't reduce the colony's defenses with it, it's pretty useless unless I completely wipe them out from orbit (which reduces it to an outpost, thereby indirectly reducing the defenses) but if I do that, it's only useful in that it reduces the number of troopships I need to capture the colony. Bombing down to an outpost just means I have to build it back up from scratch after I capture it, so in most situations, it's pointless.
I agree with this. I have played hundreds of games of FO and have never ever used bombardment - it's pretty much the only mechanic in the game I've never used. But the specificity of ship parts is only half the problem - the other half is that live pops are so much more valuable than dead ones. I haven't thought of a good way to address this - the new happiness delay after conquering helps, but not quite enough. Perhaps bombardment could 'steal' PP or RP from the target pops as they die (a bit like Concentration Camps)? That would make it more attractive to non-xenophobes...
[*]Arc Disruptors pretty much make anything up to Death Rays 2 redundant. Damage is so high there's really no point switching it up until then.<<Edit: NM turns out they do significantly reduced damage vs. shields compared to others so that's a balancing factor.>>[/list]
I'm pleased that arc disruptors got nerfed - they used to bypass shields. They're still powerful, but the upgrades take a lot of research so I think they're ok. The remaining problem IMO is that they make flak cannons obsolete (unless you have great pilots). My suggestion is to make flak cannons (even) cheaper ...

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#9 Post by wobbly »

Flak cannons are more reliable. Guaranteed to kill x number of fighters if they survive the 1st round. They are the cheapest most reliable anti-fighter weapon in the game and take less space then an interceptor/launcher pair.

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#10 Post by Ophiuchus »

Magnate wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:54 pm I'm pleased that arc disruptors got nerfed - they used to bypass shields.
? No they didn't.
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#11 Post by Magnate »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:01 pm
Magnate wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:54 pm I'm pleased that arc disruptors got nerfed - they used to bypass shields.
? No they didn't.
Didn't they? Oh ok then, I could have sworn an early version did, but never mind.

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#12 Post by LienRag »

I do occasionnally find Krill Spawners in the Ancient Ruins. The krill spawning effect is not really useful (I thought too to feed it to krakens as the Pedia hints at it but nothing happened) but it also has a stealth effect.
Alas, this stealth effect (which works only on unarmed ships) doesn't stack with other ship parts, which makes it usually useless at the time one was able to kill a Sentinel.
The fact that krill appearing in a system could be a hint that an enemy stealthy ship is here is very interesting imho, though.

Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 9:22 am
Dragget wrote: Sun Sep 20, 2020 12:33 am
Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:59 pmI think its for feeding krakens or something?
Nothing in the pedia about this. Is it possible this is left over from something planned in an earlier version but never implemented?
From the code:
//triple the chance of maturing when in a system with Krill


Is this in a FOCS file somewhere ? I wasn't able to find it.

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#13 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:16 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: From the code:
//triple the chance of maturing when in a system with Krill
Is this in a FOCS file somewhere ? I wasn't able to find it.

Code: Select all

$ grep -r "//triple the chance of maturing when in a system with Krill" default/
default/scripting/ship_hulls/monster/SH_KRAKEN_2_BODY.focs.txt:                //triple the chance of maturing when in a system with Krill
default/scripting/ship_hulls/monster/SH_KRAKEN_1_BODY.focs.txt:                //triple the chance of maturing when in a system with Krill
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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#14 Post by LienRag »

Oh ! Thanks. I looked in the "monster designs" folders, didn't think to look in the "Ship hulls" one.
Nor to use grep, which is stupid of me since I'm supposed to know Linux.

I looked at the rest of the code, and I'm not entirely sure that I understand this line :

Code: Select all

Turn low = max(30, LocalCandidate.LastTurnActiveInBattle + 1)
I think (after a lot of wrong interpretations !) that it means that a Kraken won't mature until the 30th turns, is that it ? Also it can't mature if it was in battle the turn before, which has some logic in it.
With the slowing of the game due to Oberlus' nerf, should that value (30 turns) be kept as it is ?

The random spawning formula ensures that it won't mature either until he's at least 11 turns old; is 1 in the formula the certain probability (i.e., is a 110 turns old small kraken going to mature for sure) ?

I looked at the other tamable Monsters's formula, and it is the same.
Shouldn't the value be differenciated ? It's worse to get a full-fledged Juggernaut on turn 30 than a Snowflake...
Also the maturing rates could be a little bit differenciated, like having the "-0,1" replaced by "-0,07" for Snowflakes and "-0,15" for Juggernauts.
With some hint for it in the Pedia, it would let the player know that some monsters mature more easily.

I looked at the Nests code too, I guess

Code: Select all

effectsgroups = [[[MONSTER_NEST(SNOWFLAKE,snowflake,0.08)]]
is where the spawning of monsters is coded ? I found the corresponding macro and it certainly looks like this is...

How to correct it so that the name of the Monster is included in the sitrep ? It's important if it's clickable (like for new ships) so the player can select it directly instead of having to go to the planet and try to click on the very small icon representing the fleet...

In the stringtables the sitrep message is coded that way :

Code: Select all

SITREP_SHIP_BUILT 
%system%: a new %shipdesign%, the '%ship%', has been produced.
while the monster sitrep message is

Code: Select all

EFFECT_TAME_MONSTER_HATCHED
At %planet%: a tamed %predefinedshipdesign% is ready for service
or

Code: Select all

EFFECT_TAME_MONSTER_MATURED 
At %system%: a more powerful tame %predefinedshipdesign% has matured from a lesser form.
depending if it's hatched or matured.
I'd like to correct the code, but I don't understand where to get the ship's name ? I guess using "%ships" in EFFECT_TAME_MONSTER_HATCHED or EFFECT_TAME_MONSTER_MATURED won't work ?


Actually, now that I know how the Krill Spawner can be used to feed krakens to make them mature earlier, it certainly makes a lot more sense, both to mature tamed krakens and to unleash untamed krakens at the enemy. But isn't it micromanagy though ?


On an unrelated topic, looking for "design" in the stringtable to find she sitrep message for ship creation, I found this :

Code: Select all

EFFECT_INTERSPECIES_ACADEMY 
Additional effect by the %species% on %planet% joining the InterDesign design academy. Each design academy adds 0.05 to %rawtext%.
What does that mean ?
I thought the Academy added a flat bonus to research bound to focus ?

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Re: Some bugs and other issues (4.10+ 2020-08-17.2240ab3)

#15 Post by Oberlus »

Feel free to make any modification of your choice, playtest it and eventually make a PR to integrate your contributions into the game.

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