Older topic about Local Solar System Management

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truepurple
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Re: Management controls

#16 Post by truepurple »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:33 pm I just don't use rotation, never iterate over anything. Rotation is micromanagement.
So here you are criticizing my feedback for improving a system you don't even use in the first place. That really invalidates most of what you have to say on the subject. I'd be like you prefixing feedback on FO by saying you don't even play it or ever intend to play it, X game is just better.

BTW "sitreps" (I think I know what you mean by that) is excessively verbose, especially with the turn delay early notice issue too. But if you like to use that despite that issue, go for it. This is not a thing for you. The rotation system can be useful, especially with improvements. As far as opening a object window, having to keep changing object filters trying to hunt down what you need (and the filter selection system is not easy to use) When by taking most systems you don't even use (like you yourself said Oberlus, thanks for repeating my point for while acting like your making a case against it) out of rotation, you could quickly and easily rotate through that which you do use, much quicker and easier then messing with that badly designed/incomplete object window!
I might unobsolete something maybe once in ten games.
But you do obsolete things, which is a similar function to what I am describing. Stop talking out of both sides of your mouth and contradicting yourself with your blasted goal post moving.

BTW, if you ever build a redundant base, scrap it. It costs you (makes other ships more expensive to build).
I need more information, nothing anywhere I've looked at says anything like this, so I would appreciate to know how a system like that works. Sounds stupid anyway. Ship cost should not be impacted by existing ships at all.
And try to stop telling devs what they should do, please, specially if you keep asking things from other games really loaded of micromanagement that FO have done in a better way.
I'd have to start telling devs what to do, in order to stop telling them what to do, I won't start telling devs what to do, don't tell me to start telling devs what to do, you can't tell me what to do! AKA STFU with your stupid slander.

Also FO has more micromanagement than most other 4X games.
Last edited by truepurple on Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LienRag
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Re: Management controls

#17 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 10:33 pm
I just don't use rotation, never iterate over anything. Rotation is micromanagement. Specially with systems and planets it's absolutely unnecesary. Sitreps do all the job nicely.
Actually, good hotkeys for rotation could be nice.
It's true that we don't use rotation often but sometime it's useful to review one's Empire to check if we didn't miss anything, or if we can get a new idea by examining what we have.

It's true that the Objects panel is a way to do that, but it's a bit clumsy and anyway takes more time than a rotation when one needs to do a rotation.

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Oberlus
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Re: Management controls

#18 Post by Oberlus »

LR, I disagree, rotating over your stuff is more clumsy than looking at all of it at a glance.

Truepurple, why you keep being insulting no matter what?

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LienRag
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Re: Management controls

#19 Post by LienRag »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:16 am LR, I disagree, rotating over your stuff is more clumsy than looking at all of it at a glance.
Depends on what you're doing and maybe on how your mind works.
I find both useful for different use cases - you get more info on each object when rotating, for example, and it's easier to get more details.

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:16 am Truepurple, why you keep being insulting no matter what?
O RLY ?

Ophiuchus
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Re: Management controls

#20 Post by Ophiuchus »

LienRag wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:58 am
Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:16 am rotating over your stuff is more clumsy than looking at all of it at a glance.
I find both useful for different use cases - you get more info on each object when rotating, for example, and it's easier to get more details.
I don't object to rotating itself. I object to add complexity to UI in order to put stuff out of rotation and putting it back in (or maybe adding different rotation sets, oh and a button to highlight ships on the map which are out of rotation, and...).

Anyway if somebody implements it and its good UI and not confusing we can certainly merge it. Case closed.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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truepurple
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Re: Management controls

#21 Post by truepurple »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 5:16 am LR, I disagree, rotating over your stuff is more clumsy than looking at all of it at a glance.
You speak as someone who's never used the object window, which is odd considering your position.

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:16 am I don't object to rotating itself. I object to add complexity to UI in order to put stuff out of rotation and putting it back in (or maybe adding different rotation sets, oh and a button to highlight ships on the map which are out of rotation, and...).
The word you are looking for is addition, not "complex", nothing I am describing here has any real level of complexity to it.

Besides, we don't even need a UI to do any of this. Hot key to take something out of rotation, hotkey to add it back in, hotkeys to rotate through that which was taken out of rotation, if we want to go the full distance. A UI of a simple check box or other marker to indicate whether something is in or out of rotation would just be a nice bonus, but not strictly necessary. We could also add some text in a corner somewhere to indicate it, we really don't need much.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Management controls

#22 Post by Ophiuchus »

truepurple wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:26 am The word you are looking for is addition, not "complex"
Dont try putting words in my mouth
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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LienRag
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Re: Management controls

#23 Post by LienRag »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 6:16 am
I don't object to rotating itself. I object to add complexity to UI in order to put stuff out of rotation and putting it back in (or maybe adding different rotation sets, oh and a button to highlight ships on the map which are out of rotation, and...).

Anyway if somebody implements it and its good UI and not confusing we can certainly merge it. Case closed.
That is certainly a valid position.
Hotkeys would be neat for that, the player who like to use that sort of stuff can learn them, and they don't clutter the UI.

truepurple
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Re: Management controls

#24 Post by truepurple »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:01 pm
truepurple wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:26 am The word you are looking for is addition, not "complex"
Dont try putting words in my mouth
I was correcting your very wrong statement. Obviously if I quote you, no one has a chance to be confused about what you said. It would not add any more complexity to the existing system, this is flat out wrong. It would just add more options that can easily be ignored, options that would not be at all hard to understand.

So to summarize the specifics I've refined (also added this to OP):
Instead of 2 rotation systems, one for owned planets, one for owned fleets with each rotation system having two hot keys that rotate it forwards or back.

We'd have 3 rotation systems, each with two keys that would rotate back and forth between them.
1. rotating system for fleets, like normal.
2. rotating owned solar systems(SS) instead of planets. This switch from rotating planets to rotating SS should be accompanied by all ship production of a SS combined, no matter what planet is selected.

Hotkey X (or whatever key) when pressed, any selected SS or fleet gets pressed it removes from rotation lists(I don't mean UI list) #1 and #2 and added to list #3. Pressing X hotkey again with a fleet or SS selected puts it back. It would be nice if there was some icon or word or something to indicate this status when looking at a fleet or SS, but not strictly necessary. A graphical check box one can click toggle would be an additional not required bonus,

3. rotating through the removed by X hotkey list, which would combine the SS and fleets removed from the other two rotations into this third rotation. This way you can look through what you have removed from the other two rotations and and decide if you want to add them back by pressing X hotkey when the SS or fleet is selected.

Also #3 rotation system could be used on it's own. You could reverse the the use and treat rotations #1 and #2 as the not use normally and rotation #3 as your favorites list you can mark select SS and fleets and quickly rotate through, this would be solely a function of which hotkey rotation systems players choose to use and how they use them, no additional programming required.

Alternatively, #3 could be split into two rotations with separate rotations for fleets and SS of the removed. Would mean two more hotkeys to assign and remember, but keyboards do have lots of key options. Whatever version people want most/&/or whatever is easiest to program AKA which ever makes getting this most likely, I am for.

defaultuser
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Re: A third rotation list.

#25 Post by defaultuser »

I must confess that I don't exactly know what is meant by "rotation" here.

truepurple
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Re: A third rotation list.

#26 Post by truepurple »

It's buttons you press to go to next and previous planets and SS.

LR seems to know what I refer to, please help me find the right term so the most people will understand.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Management controls

#27 Post by Ophiuchus »

truepurple wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:33 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:01 pm
truepurple wrote: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:26 am The word you are looking for is addition, not "complex"
Dont try putting words in my mouth
I was correcting your very wrong statement.
You were wrongly doing that. The word I was looking for is complexity, not "addition".

Dont try putting words in my mouth.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

truepurple
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Re: A third rotation list.

#28 Post by truepurple »

@Ophiuchus I was correcting your claim, I did not mean to put words in your mouth. Obviously no one thinks you said anything different.

But what I am suggesting doesn't add complexity, which is all I was saying with that. Please don't overthink the exact words used. It's not about the semantics of what was said.

wobbly
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Re: A third rotation list.

#29 Post by wobbly »

truepurple wrote: Sat Jul 17, 2021 8:21 am It's not about the semantics of what was said.
Exactly. It's about the attitude behind your words. No amount of changing the words fixes it, if the attitude doesn't change.

truepurple
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Re: A third rotation list.

#30 Post by truepurple »

Does anyone see a way this idea is too complex for anyone to use or adds complexity to the existing system that would make anyone confused? If so, speak up. Otherwise I'll take it by your silence that everyone finds the idea simple enough.

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