Fighter structure and firepower spillover

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Daybreak
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Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#1 Post by Daybreak »

1) Do all fighters have a structure of 1 (or is it now 6), and if not what is it for each?

2) If I have an Strike fighter with damage of 24, and I fire on a fighter (whichever one it is) with a structure of 1(or is it now 6) and kill it, does it mean my shot is taken for that round/bout, or in the same round/bout, the firepower of the Strike fighter splills over and the balance of 23 (or 18) damage has the potential to take out more fighters (or do further damage to ships)?
In other words, can the Strike fighter only take one shot, and can do up to 24 damage for that one shot, OR is the 24 damage spread over many ships until it is zero?

wobbly
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#2 Post by wobbly »

Technically they don't have a structure value and any hit kills them. They can be hit multiple times in a combat round, as they are not removed till round end.

Strike fighters fire once/round and there is no damage spill over. Excess damage is just lost whether the target is a ship, fighter or planet.

Daybreak
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#3 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 5:54 am They can be hit multiple times in a combat round, as they are not removed till round end.
Ok I remember this being talked about, that it does not make much sense.

is that also the same with any ship - It may be destroyed in the round, but can be continually hit, and only removed at end of round

wobbly
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#4 Post by wobbly »

Yes its the same with ships and planet defenses. I guess the "logic" is all combat fire in a round is simultaneous. I don't think that's necessarily bad, I think the main issue is there is no real in-game documentation of how combat works yet. At least none that I could find (I took a quick look just then).

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Oberlus
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#5 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:14 am is that also the same with any ship - It may be destroyed in the round, but can be continually hit, and only removed at end of round
Yes.
Think of it as if the shots are simultaneous: several ships/fighters aimed at the same target at the same time.
The fact that internally the shots are computed one after the other is not meant to make the above non-sensical.

Daybreak
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#6 Post by Daybreak »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 2:14 pm
Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 11:14 am is that also the same with any ship - It may be destroyed in the round, but can be continually hit, and only removed at end of round
Yes.
Think of it as if the shots are simultaneous: several ships/fighters aimed at the same target at the same time.
The fact that internally the shots are computed one after the other is not meant to make the above non-sensical.
So targeting is random, except where an interceptor cant target ships, but essentially a fleet of 100 interceptors could target only the one fighter out of an enemy fleet of 100 interceptors, but be totally destroyed themselves. Would that not mean that the outcome for any battle is random irrespective of the firepower and structure size? Although that does not seem to happen, so maybe there is more to this.
Daybreak wrote: Does it not make sense. to assume a central command is designating targets, and any target that is destroyed is then ignored, however with the understanding it still exists for the purpose of having its own shot back, until it is removed for the next round?
after then writing the above, I thought maybe it is better to have some chaos in the battle so some ships are targeted too much.

I am just wondering how do you stop/mitigate the problem of poor results when clearly one side should have normally won a battle.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#7 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:27 pm but essentially a fleet of 100 interceptors could target only the one fighter out of an enemy fleet of 100 interceptors, but be totally destroyed themselves.
yes possible. but it is more probable that you get killed by a meteorite than this happening
Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:27 pm Would that not mean that the outcome for any battle is random irrespective of the firepower and structure size? Although that does not seem to happen, so maybe there is more to this.
a random result is not the same as "completely random". there is this thing called probabilities. a random result can be very very very very very consistent.
Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:27 pm I am just wondering how do you stop/mitigate the problem of poor results when clearly one side should have normally won a battle.
it sounds you got surprised by the result of a battle. so either you misunderstood the probabilities or you got bitten by the RNG.

the randomness is part of the game here and we actually want something like this so unpredicted things can happen.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Daybreak
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#8 Post by Daybreak »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:48 am
Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:27 pm but essentially a fleet of 100 interceptors could target only the one fighter out of an enemy fleet of 100 interceptors, but be totally destroyed themselves.
yes possible. but it is more probable that you get killed by a meteorite than this happening
But still possible!, and yes probabilities will even that out, but the closer you get to middle ground the more possible it is.
Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:48 am
Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:27 pm Would that not mean that the outcome for any battle is random irrespective of the firepower and structure size? Although that does not seem to happen, so maybe there is more to this.
a random result is not the same as "completely random". there is this thing called probabilities. a random result can be very very very very very consistent.
It is either random or not random, there is no inbetween. True the more ships in the equation, then it is more probably that damage will be spread out further between more ships, based on randomness.
And consistentancy is based on probability of the randomness, however there is still the "what if" factor
Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:48 am
Daybreak wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:27 pm I am just wondering how do you stop/mitigate the problem of poor results when clearly one side should have normally won a battle.
it sounds you got surprised by the result of a battle. so either you misunderstood the probabilities or you got bitten by the RNG.

the randomness is part of the game here and we actually want something like this so unpredicted things can happen.
No not any battle, and I do embrace the randomness, however there is no mitigating factor to stop really wrong results.

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Oberlus
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#9 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:32 am But still possible!, and yes probabilities will even that out, but the closer you get to middle ground the more possible it is.
The probability of 100 shots hitting the same target among 100 targets is 0. (198 zeros) 1.
If you hit that result, I hope you also play lottery, because with that luck you could also win lottery 33 times in a row.
But I don't think the guys running the lottery should add mitigation factors.

Daybreak wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:32 am
Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:48 am a random result is not the same as "completely random". there is this thing called probabilities. a random result can be very very very very very consistent.
It is either random or not random, there is no inbetween. True the more ships in the equation, then it is more probably that damage will be spread out further between more ships, based on randomness.
And consistentancy is based on probability of the randomness, however there is still the "what if" factor
That "What if" factor, do you mean "what if 100 shots hit the same ship?" You play lottery.


Probability distribution of 4 shots at 4 targets:
- All shots landing on the same ship: 1.56%
- One ships gets 3 shots: 18.75%
- Two ships get 2 shots: 14.06%
- One ship gets 2 shots, two ships get one shot: 56.25%
- One shot per ship: 9.37%

What if your ship gets hit by 4 shots when chances were 1.56%? Nothing, or you can rage quit or reload or just play next turn.
What if your ships get 1 hit each (the best outcome for you probably)? Again, nothing.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#10 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:32 am No not any battle, and I do embrace the randomness, however there is no mitigating factor to stop really wrong results.
my point was that improbable results are not wrong (unless there is a bug). else we would not get surprising results

there is a history of games to simulate complex situations by randomizing results. rarely a very small force wins unexpectedly against a much stronger one (by skill or chance or by the opponent doing stupid things).

so this works as intended.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Daybreak
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Re: Fighter structure and firepower spillover

#11 Post by Daybreak »

Thank you

great lottery analogy Oberlus - you have convinced me.

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