Battle with Oberlus

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Daybreak
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Battle with Oberlus

#1 Post by Daybreak »

Ok just learnt, that you have to manually work out what damage your fighters may do as damage shown is total for 3 rounds.

My Heavy bombers with 420 firepower, only did 144 damage to his ships. 1/3 in first round, with most being destroyed which I expected.

So the total firepower of 9028 was only 3009

So to play this game you lol need a calculator not that the above is so hard, but different numbers and mixed fleets where guns are divided by 4- thats funny

Can I suggest somehow this is shown in the totals

for example for firepower you have a round total followed by total firepower 3K (9K) - no calculator needed.

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LienRag
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#2 Post by LienRag »

It's a new UI and it's frankly catastrophic.
Note that for fighters specifically, you can hover over the fighter icon on you ship (not fleet) and you'll get a detailed description of launch rate and damage.

Daybreak
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#3 Post by Daybreak »

LienRag wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:29 am It's a new UI and it's frankly catastrophic.
Note that for fighters specifically, you can hover over the fighter icon on you ship (not fleet) and you'll get a detailed description of launch rate and damage.
yes thank you

Angry at myself for a simple mistake.

Still I hope the above simple gui change will help others as well keep in mind the 4 rounds.

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Oberlus
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#4 Post by Oberlus »


Daybreak
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#5 Post by Daybreak »

Thanks Oberlus

I will put something in there.

Daybreak
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#6 Post by Daybreak »

Quick question

are shields also divided by 4?

I am pretty sure structure would not be, but best to make sure. is it?

Ophiuchus
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#7 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:55 pm are shields also divided by 4?
no

if a ship is hit by a shot of a weapon part, the weapon part's damage value reduced by the ship's shield is subtracted from the structure; as formula: new_structure = old_structure - (max(0, shot_damage - shield_value))

the structural-damage/fighters-shot-down values shown for fleets are a rough estimate/the maximum damage the fleet will do in combat (so a total for the four bouts).

that means an enemy fleet will loose that amount of structure/that number of fighters only in a perfect battle: no overshooting, no loss of own fighters or ships before the last bout, always having a valid target, never shooting a direct weapon against a shielded ship.

so this is the maximum damage.

the minimum damage depends a lot on details. if one ignores the close distance direct weapons (flux lance, monster teeth, monster body etc..), each weapon/fighter does at least one bout of damage. a ship may get shot down before the close distance direct weapons are ready to shoot, so that makes minimum damage zero for those weapons.

if your fleet contains only non-close distance direct weapons, the optimal minimum damage (no overshooting, always having a valid target, never shooting a shielded ship) is a fourth of the maximum estimates.

if your fleet contains only fighters, the optimal minimum damage (no overshooting, always having a valid target) is a third of the maximum estimates. Also note that the arc disruptor and striker fighters are able to either hit a ship or a fighter, and are both counted in the structural-damage/fighters-shot-down estimates.

note there are two types of overshooting: having higher damage than target structure and more importantly shooting a dead target

side-note: no simple GUI change will completely help with this, mastery of the combat system will help predicting the result of a battle. i have the impression you always get angry when you learn how the game actually works (as a result of your expectations not being met).
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

Daybreak
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#8 Post by Daybreak »

Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:55 am
Daybreak wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:55 pm are shields also divided by 4?
no
I wanted to clarify that, to see if I needed to include it in my next post

and thank you for the detailed answer
Ophiuchus wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:55 am side-note: no simple GUI change will completely help with this, mastery of the combat system will help predicting the result of a battle. i have the impression you always get angry when you learn how the game actually works (as a result of your expectations not being met).
No, I dot get angry, except at myself mainly. I can be frustrated with complications, when many are not needed - it was once part of my job.
Text is not a great medium for talking, so my gung ho, go for it attitude can be taken the wrong way so apologise if my words appear angry.


Currently the firepower shown is just "potential" firepower, and very far from what may happen. In a battle you may only get 25% of that firepower (or less if it includes close up weapons), and a ship is destroyed 1st round, and up to 100% if that ship survives, + 33.3% of the firepower for a fighter if destroyed 2nd round, and up to 100% again if it also survives.

Yes firepower may not be entirely accurate, when flux lance is included, but for a users point of view it can be closer than it is now.
Divide all gun firepower by 4 (or less for close distance direct weapons)
All fighter firepower by 3

and just display that in the gui.

It wont make any difference to the game mechanics at all, and it is still just potential firepower for guns, because enemy ships may have shields, but a lot more accurate for User purposes than displaying the potential firepower of a ship/fighter making it all the way through 4 rounds.

We know there are 4 rounds, and we would know that what was is displayed is the potential fire power that may be used at first (even if part of that firepower is in the second round for fighters) and if parts of the fleet survive, will be fired again.


So no need for gui changes at all, just change the calculations of what is displayed. My vote would be for firepower displayed to only be -
Gun firepower divided by 4 (or less for close distance direct weapons)
Fighter firepower divided by 3

a lot more accurate, and we also know there is the potential for that same amount of firepower to be fired more than once. We can now also size it up against structure and potential damage.

Its not perfect, but does not entail, trying to show 4 round potential in another screen or hover, that really does not mean anything if a ship/fighter is destroyed early on.

I will also post in the other thread.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Battle with Oberlus

#9 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 12:16 pm Divide all gun firepower by 4 (or less for close distance direct weapons)
All fighter firepower by 3 ...
as you crossposted i'll answer on the other thread
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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