Ships and stealth

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Daybreak
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Ships and stealth

#1 Post by Daybreak »

I don't understand what is happening with ships and stealth

In Custom ship building
Put in a Hull: Spatial Flux Bubble Hull - it shows stealth as 0 (zero)
Click on Spatial Flux Bubble Hull, and it tells me the hull has 15 stealth (but not shown when building it)
Go back to Custom ship building
Add a Electromagnetic Dampener +20 stealth

and Stealth still shows zero - is this because I have not researched Electromagnetic Dampener

I am thinking it should read 35 stealth.

I clicked on unavailable, and tried different ships and stealth parts with varying different results, but none were the correct total, as if something has been introduced to lessen Stealth.

Why are the totals not correct, or is this an issue already raised elsewhere?

Playing MP version

wobbly
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Re: Ships and stealth

#2 Post by wobbly »

Stealth is bugged in current multiplayer.

Stealth is odd on spatial flux hulls. They are stealthier if they stay in constant motion. Adding an electronic dampener to a flux bubble does nothing. The techs are built directly into all flux hulls. Maybe they shouldn't be able to have the part, as it's already there.

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Oberlus
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Re: Ships and stealth

#3 Post by Oberlus »

Non-flux hulls also show stealth 0, with and without stealth parts.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Ships and stealth

#4 Post by Ophiuchus »

wobbly wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:25 am Stealth is bugged in current multiplayer.

Stealth is odd on spatial flux hulls. They are stealthier if they stay in constant motion.
Also if they stay put they get the bonus. That is mostly(?) as intended. We could make the tech bonus motion independent though.
wobbly wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 4:25 am Adding an electronic dampener to a flux bubble does nothing. The techs are built directly into all flux hulls. Maybe they shouldn't be able to have the part, as it's already there.
AFAICR, the parts should add the full bonus while the flux hull has the half bonus for free.
Probably order/priority is wrong
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Ophiuchus
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Re: Ships and stealth

#5 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:14 am Non-flux hulls also show stealth 0, with and without stealth parts.
Is the meter wrong or the GUI?
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Look, ma... four combat bouts!

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Oberlus
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Re: Ships and stealth

#6 Post by Oberlus »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:27 am
Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:14 am Non-flux hulls also show stealth 0, with and without stealth parts.
Is the meter wrong or the GUI?
Dunno, I can't build the ship innthat game, only design the ship with unavailable parts.

Ophiuchus
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Re: Ships and stealth

#7 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:53 am
Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 7:27 am
Oberlus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 6:14 am Non-flux hulls also show stealth 0, with and without stealth parts.
Is the meter wrong or the GUI?
Dunno, I can't build the ship innthat game, only design the ship with unavailable parts.
Sounds like effects to not get applied at all for you(?). Basic effect (+5) and e.g. unavailable stealth parts work fine for me in the design UI (current master snap build).


Anyway, I see a bug for the flux hulls (probably connected to the designer UI). The flux stealth effect should apply already when building the ship in order to not give a hidden colony away. So flux decoherence should not apply in the first turn.

Anyway, as this is an example of a conditional effect, probably it would be good to have some effect accounting in the design UI, so the player is able to see that a stealth bonus is coming from the hull. Even better would be to show non-triggering effects and their causes (like for building location in production UI).

I am not sure what fleet stance the prototypical ship used for design evaluation has, but i guess it is non-aggressive.
Also connected here is the non existing feature being able to set/modify the prototypical ship/fleet in the designer or being able to selectively apply effects.

Note to myself: check if there is a visibility update between building a ship and applying the initial meter updates on them; and find out why there actually are multiple updates.
Daybreak wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 11:11 pm Put in a Hull: Spatial Flux Bubble Hull - it shows stealth as 0 (zero)
...Add a Electromagnetic Dampener +20 stealth

and Stealth still shows zero - is this because I have not researched Electromagnetic Dampener

I am thinking it should read 35 stealth.
if i research 1 ship stealth tech, Spatial Flux Bubble Hull shows 5 stealth (should be 35 if non-aggressive). if i research 2 ship stealth techs, it shows 15 (should be 45 if non-aggressive). i think it applies flux decoherence effect, i.e. -30.
the flux bubble stealth is complex, so it is best observed in an actual ship and not in the designer. everything is described in the hull description though.

this is a general word of advice if something is wrong. read the pedia. in complex situations test the stuff in the actual game. there are options for e.g. fast research and cheap buildings/ships which makes it easy to get to a state where you can test something.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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Oberlus
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Re: Ships and stealth

#8 Post by Oberlus »

Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 29, 2022 8:19 am Sounds like effects to not get applied at all for you(?). Basic effect (+5) and e.g. unavailable stealth parts work fine for me in the design UI (current master snap build).
Yes.
This happens only with the 20th MP game version. I've played a bit in recent versions and didn't notice anything like this.

Daybreak
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Re: Ships and stealth

#9 Post by Daybreak »

Well I can report as Wobbly said Stealth for ships seems to be broken

First - the ship when built looks ok, so the gui is currently wrong only, but from posts above looks like that has been fixed.

However the pedia says this

Due to Fleet Unstealthiness, when there are more than 10.0 ships of the same empire in a system, their Stealth is reduced by 5.00 multiplied by the square root of 10.0 less than the number of ships that empire has in the system.

Even though I only have 9 ships in the system or adjacent starlanes, although 10 if I include the stealthy ship (Star type not making any difference as per rest of the pedia entry, plus I am in flight)
Unstealthiness is 40

Yet based on pedia calculation unstealthiness should be zero

Has the calculation changed, and has not been updated in the Pedia

If not will get o01leg to save the game and get it analysed.

wobbly
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Re: Ships and stealth

#10 Post by wobbly »


wobbly
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Re: Ships and stealth

#11 Post by wobbly »

One thing I'll note about that fix. Ships can avoid the penalty by never being stationary e.g. always on a starlane. Something to look at later I guess.

Daybreak
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Re: Ships and stealth

#12 Post by Daybreak »

wobbly wrote: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:10 am Its known and was fixed in master.

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/ ... e43673e1cf
ok thanks Wobbly - It thought it was still a problem.

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