Impressions about 0.4.2

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.

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cochise
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Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:45 pm

Impressions about 0.4.2

#1 Post by cochise »

After two games, with 150 and 200 systems and 3 and 4 AIs, both going up to turn 200.

* The AI "beginner" is much more slow then the "maniac". After 200 turns, my processor goes crazy to end the turn and the sound stops. some balance of priorities maybe solve this.

* None of them are really difficult

* The asteroid hulls are very cheap and pretty good. I was producing ships like a factory. As we have only one line of guns, the hulls are very central, and with one robotic i can make two asteroid. I not built bio, or energy, but I don't see any real vantage or balance. The structure of the first energy is 20, and with one technology i got 3 asteroid hulls with 60.

* The two AIs always accept the peace. I can simply make peace at start, place the ships in their systems and declare war.

* There is no way to resist, minimize or block the telepathic conversion of your ships. At some time I was making ships for the enemy.

* Black hole generators and telepathic conversion are mutually exclusive buttons "I Win"

* The propulsions seems to not work.

* When you have 100+ fleets locate where are those ships is a pain.
Sins of a Solar Empire have a fully functional UI for ship management (http://www.invisioncommunity.co.uk/wp-c ... mpire2.jpg) maybe in long term we can make a fleet management window.

* The AIs keep thousands of fleets of 2-3 ships in each planet, to make more difficult calculate their forces.

AndrewW
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#2 Post by AndrewW »

cochise wrote:After two games, with 150 and 200 systems and 3 and 4 AIs, both going up to turn 200.
* None of them are really difficult
Helps if you reduce the number of systems and/or increase the number of AI's to make things more challenging.
cochise wrote:* The asteroid hulls are very cheap and pretty good. I was producing ships like a factory. As we have only one line of guns, the hulls are very central, and with one robotic i can make two asteroid. I not built bio, or energy, but I don't see any real vantage or balance. The structure of the first energy is 20, and with one technology i got 3 asteroid hulls with 60.
There is more to a hull then just structure. The asteroid hulls are slower.
cochise wrote:* There is no way to resist, minimize or block the telepathic conversion of your ships. At some time I was making ships for the enemy.
You need to research it as well, that prevents it's operation on you.

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Dilvish
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#3 Post by Dilvish »

cochise wrote:* None of them are really difficult... The two AIs always accept the peace. I can simply make peace at start, place the ships in their systems and declare war.
well no wonder you didn't find them difficult :lol: Actually, even if you didn't do that you might not find them so difficult, there were a lot of changes going on as 0.4.2. was being prepared & the AI's have not yet adapted enough to be as good as they were a few months ago (but still much better than 0.4.1). If you play the current SVN version (or the packaged Test version that comes out in a day or so), you should find them noticeably harder than 0.4.2 (though perhaps still not 'really difficult'). I also recommend one Empire for every 12-20 Systems. But the AI's will still accept peace offers for no reason (at least part of the time) -- in case you hadn't figured it out, AI diplomacy is essentially unimplemented at the current time; the limited bit in there is for test, not play.
* There is no way to resist, minimize or block the telepathic conversion of your ships.
The tech, which Andrew mentioned, is called Psychogenic Domination (in the Learning branch). It's description explains defenses; in addition to researching it as Andrew suggested, ships produced by telepathic species are not susceptible.
* The propulsions seems to not work.
I just took some time to test Improved Engine Couplings and the NDimensional Engine Matrix and they both worked just fine. Did you actually compare ships side by side, with and without the propulsion? Please explain the details of whatever comparison you did.
* The AIs keep thousands of fleets of 2-3 ships in each planet, to make more difficult calculate their forces.
To the extent that happens, it's not to make things difficult for you to assess, it's just that AI fleets only get consolidated if they're on the same mission. It's hard to figure out how they could get as bad as you describe, unless you really did that peace thing?
If I provided any code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0

unjashfan
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#4 Post by unjashfan »

cochise wrote:
After two games, with 150 and 200 systems and 3 and 4 AIs, both going up to turn 200.
* None of them are really difficult
AndrewW wrote:
Helps if you reduce the number of systems and/or increase the number of AI's to make things more challenging.
At 15-30 systems per empire, AIs will be close enough to each other so that they will start fighting each other quite early, and it's possible to survive a bad situation just because they will ignore you, especially if you don't attack them.

MiniMe
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#5 Post by MiniMe »

I've been trying to figure out a good balance between # of systems and AIs to make the game more difficult.

15-20 systems/AI was actually not more difficult compared to 30-40 systems/AI. Probably due to the reason unjashfan gave.
Infact, densely populated maps give an advantage to human players once u get to organic hull+laser1: expansion through attack/invasion. It's even easier as Eaxaw, obviously.
This tactic is superior to colonization, since conquering a capital gives not only much higher and instant PP/RP, but often a new species.

With more systems/AI the game tends to advance slower since expansion through colonization isnt as fast. And it's also luck weather u find natives which can colonize. My most difficult game was with this kind of setup (i had bad luck with natives and couldnt colonize much).

So my theory: it's all about luck how the system/neighbors generate (and starting species) :)

gvdm
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#6 Post by gvdm »

* The AIs keep thousands of fleets of 2-3 ships in each planet, to make more difficult calculate their forces.
Perhaps the window showing the fleets should summarize the total structure/attack for each empires fleets? This way you can see at a glance the total firepower sitting in a system without having to sum the fleets mentally.

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em3
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#7 Post by em3 »

gvdm wrote:
* The AIs keep thousands of fleets of 2-3 ships in each planet, to make more difficult calculate their forces.
Perhaps the window showing the fleets should summarize the total structure/attack for each empires fleets? This way you can see at a glance the total firepower sitting in a system without having to sum the fleets mentally.
It's been already suggested in another thread, and IIRC agreed upon. I'd extend the suggestion to merge the display not into a single fleet, but a single fleet per fleet type (battle, scout, troop, colonization,...).
https://github.com/macmodrov
[...] for Man has earned his right to hold this planet against all comers, by virtue of occasionally producing someone totally batshit insane. - Randall Munroe, title text to xkcd #556

ogre
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#8 Post by ogre »

em3 wrote:
gvdm wrote:
* The AIs keep thousands of fleets of 2-3 ships in each planet, to make more difficult calculate their forces.
Perhaps the window showing the fleets should summarize the total structure/attack for each empires fleets? This way you can see at a glance the total firepower sitting in a system without having to sum the fleets mentally.
It's been already suggested in another thread, and IIRC agreed upon. I'd extend the suggestion to merge the display not into a single fleet, but a single fleet per fleet type (battle, scout, troop, colonization,...).
that might make the game easier, but isn't assessing your enemies abilities part of being either a good or a bad leader? :)
edit: i'm sure the computer doesn't make that visual assessment mistake. but you're also human.
thanks for a great game. :)

Starcraft, Syndicate, Populous, Star Control II, Master of Orion, Master of Magic, X-COM UFO Defense, Spacehulk: Vengence of the Blood Angels.

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eleazar
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Re: Impressions about 0.4.2

#9 Post by eleazar »

ogre wrote:that might make the game easier, but isn't assessing your enemies abilities part of being either a good or a bad leader? :)
In FO you play as the supreme ruler (more or less) of a space empire. Making the player count things is not part of the plan, and is not part of a supreme rule's job description.

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