5905 Feedback

Describe your experience with the latest version of FreeOrion to help us improve it.

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MiniMe
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5905 Feedback

#1 Post by MiniMe »

I played three games so far with 5905.

What i have noticed:
1. AI builds too many troop ships.
Does AI perhaps think a troop ship counts as a battle ship, since it equips a weapon and even attacks with those troop-ship fleets?

2. AI seems to "forget" to invade gas planets after conquering the colony(s). Perhaps it's a cost/benefit calculation, but a GGG should be worth the troop-ship investment?
Also, see point #1, AI does have more than enough troop ships :)

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Dilvish
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#2 Post by Dilvish »

MiniMe wrote:I played three games so far with 5905.

What i have noticed:
1. AI builds too many troop ships.
Does AI perhaps think a troop ship counts as a battle ship, since it equips a weapon and even attacks with those troop-ship fleets?

2. AI seems to "forget" to invade gas planets after conquering the colony(s). Perhaps it's a cost/benefit calculation, but a GGG should be worth the troop-ship investment?
Also, see point #1, AI does have more than enough troop ships :)
As of about the week ago, the AI is building a bit more troop ships than it used to, because it had been going too slow before. I'm doubtful I'll ever be able to get that as fine tuned as a human could do it. The AI does not think the troop ships are battle ships. For the past few days there was a bug that was making the AI forget about enemy threats it was not currently observing, and so that could have made it seem like it was using troops for attack (it would have been thinking they were going into an already-clear system), and that also could have led to it thinking it could fruitfully use, and therefore make, a lot more troopships than it really could. That is fixed as of 5909.

The AI does attach a value to capturing a planet with a GGG on it & I myself haven't observed a problem with that. If you have a saved game that illustrates the AI not bothering to capture a GGG outpost, please post it. Likewise if you see a continuing problem with troop ships on or after version 5909.
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Zireael
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#3 Post by Zireael »

I wanted to say I love the new research screen. It's brilliant!

P.S. Why is the fuel still in?

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eleazar
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#4 Post by eleazar »

A button on the research screen got renamed to "locked". That doesn't seem very clear to me, it sounds more permanent than "unresearchable" or "unavailable" whatever it used to be-- especially since the other button isn't labeled "unlocked".


Zireael wrote:P.S. Why is the fuel still in?
FreeOrion development takes place in the open. And there's usually a lot of work between agreeing on an idea, and getting it in the game (which IIRC hasn't even happened for that one). The answer to this and all the similar questions you have asked and will ask is: "because no one has gotten around to implementing it yet."

MiniMe
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#5 Post by MiniMe »

Dilvish wrote:As of about the week ago, the AI is building a bit more troop ships than it used to, because it had been going too slow before. I'm doubtful I'll ever be able to get that as fine tuned as a human could do it. The AI does not think the troop ships are battle ships. For the past few days there was a bug that was making the AI forget about enemy threats it was not currently observing, and so that could have made it seem like it was using troops for attack (it would have been thinking they were going into an already-clear system), and that also could have led to it thinking it could fruitfully use, and therefore make, a lot more troopships than it really could. That is fixed as of 5909.

The AI does attach a value to capturing a planet with a GGG on it & I myself haven't observed a problem with that. If you have a saved game that illustrates the AI not bothering to capture a GGG outpost, please post it. Likewise if you see a continuing problem with troop ships on or after version 5909.
I just played another quick game. Same as before with the troop ships, it looks like AI produces 50:50 troop:battle ships.
This can be observed nicely at choke points or boxed in AIs.

But i'll wait for 5909, perhaps it's due to the bug you mentioned.

I'll post a save game with the outposts/GGG when i start a new game.

Edit: Here is an example at the system "Kochab". The outpost with GGG has has never been conquered despite them owning the colonies since ages.
In the sitrep of the previous round it shows i destroyed several troop ships, so they had the opportunity.
Attachments
GGG.zip
(953.58 KiB) Downloaded 27 times

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Dilvish
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#6 Post by Dilvish »

MiniMe wrote:Here is an example at the system "Kochab". The outpost with GGG has has never been conquered despite them owning the colonies since ages.
bah, even with compiling rev 5905 I can't load that save game (it seems like Linux savegames can be loaded in Windows, but not vice-versa). Please attach all AI log files, covering a period of a couple turns or so during which that outpost seems ignored.
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MiniMe
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#7 Post by MiniMe »

Included are AI_1.log to AI_8.log.
I've continued playing several rounds since the save game so i hope everything is in the log files you need.
Attachments
FreeOrion.zip
(256.94 KiB) Downloaded 23 times

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#8 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Dilvish wrote:(it seems like Linux savegames can be loaded in Windows, but not vice-versa).
I've had the opposite experience and observations. It may be a boost version issue, rather than a specific Linux-Windows build issue. That is, if the Linux build uses a newer version of boost than does the windows build, then the windows build might not be able to load the linux build's saves, but the linux build would be able to load the windows saves. The specific builds uses for tests would thus give different results depending which boost versions were used. Releases may eventually need to standardize on a particular boost version if OS interoperability is to function. Given the number of complaints by Linux compilers when the exact boost version they have available by default isn't compatible, this may be problematic.

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Dilvish
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#9 Post by Dilvish »

Geoff the Medio wrote:Releases may eventually need to standardize on a particular boost version if OS interoperability is to function. Given the number of complaints by Linux compilers when the exact boost version they have available by default isn't compatible, this may be problematic.
Perhaps a bit of a hassle; I seem to recall when I was first getting set up, a minor headache because Ogre or something else I had found precompiled, had been done with a different version of Boost & I got complaints from the linker at the end. But if we did need to standardize on a particular Boost version, I think it will work out ok. The FO cmake files are pretty decent about letting you specify locations for Boost and Gigi, most of the complication will probably come about with Ogre. But we have a couple new contributors with some interest in improving the cmake files, right? Perhaps they could tackle a modified Ogre cmake file to drop into an Ogre build. I can be such an optimist sometimes :D
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MiniMe
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#10 Post by MiniMe »

I think i found a bug:

I captured colony #1 which has the special Rich Minerals. It has no population, so it's not possible to set/change the focus.
Then i captured colony #2 of the same AI. It is populated by a lithic species.
This colony #2, in my possession, has the Rich Minerals bonus listed under population.

My conclusion:
AI had set focus on growth on colony #1. When the pop died out it saved that status and it is therefore still active.

Attached is the save: colony #1 = Ea, colony #2 = Yildun
Attachments
bug_specials.zip
(856.73 KiB) Downloaded 23 times

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#11 Post by Geoff the Medio »

You could check with the focus setting filter in the objects window, or right clicking the planet in the objects window and selecting debug data dump (which lists the focus of a planet). However, I think growth specials work on their own planet even without a focus set.

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Bigjoe5
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#12 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Geoff the Medio wrote:However, I think growth specials work on their own planet even without a focus set.
This.

Code: Select all

Special
    name = "MINERALS_SPECIAL"
    description = "MINERALS_SPECIAL_DESC"
    stealth = 0
    spawnrate = 1.0
    spawnlimit = 8
    location = And [
        Planet
        Not Planet type = [Asteroids GasGiant]
        Not ContainedBy Contains Capital
        Not WithinStarlaneJumps 1 Contains And [
            Planet
            OwnedBy AnyEmpire
        ]
    ]
    effectsgroups = [
        [[STANDARD_INDUSTRY_BOOST]]

        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Planet
                OwnedBy TheEmpire Source.Owner
                HasTag "LITHIC"
                ResourceSupplyConnected empire = Source.Owner condition = Source
                TargetPopulation low = 0 high = 9999
            ]
            activation =  Focus "FOCUS_GROWTH"
            stackinggroup = "MINERALS_STACK"
            effects = SetTargetPopulation Value + 1 * Target.SizeAsDouble
            
        EffectsGroup
            scope = And [
                Source
                HasTag "LITHIC"
            ]
            stackinggroup = "MINERALS_STACK"
-->         effects = SetTargetPopulation Value + 1 * Target.SizeAsDouble  // Provides the bonus locally, no matter the focus
            
           [[CHANCE_OF_GUARD_1]]
    ]
    graphic = "icons/specials_huge/minerals.png"
Warning: Antarans in dimensional portal are closer than they appear.

MiniMe
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#13 Post by MiniMe »

Geoff the Medio wrote:You could check with the focus setting filter in the objects window, or right clicking the planet in the objects window and selecting debug data dump (which lists the focus of a planet). However, I think growth specials work on their own planet even without a focus set.
I checked in the object window, the planet is focused on growth.

And yes, specials work on their own planet regardless of focus.
In this case, a "dead" colony is giving the bonus empire-wide to all my lithic colonies.

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Bigjoe5
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#14 Post by Bigjoe5 »

MiniMe wrote:
Geoff the Medio wrote:You could check with the focus setting filter in the objects window, or right clicking the planet in the objects window and selecting debug data dump (which lists the focus of a planet). However, I think growth specials work on their own planet even without a focus set.
I checked in the object window, the planet is focused on growth.

And yes, specials work on their own planet regardless of focus.
In this case, a "dead" colony is giving the bonus empire-wide to all my lithic colonies.
Ah, my bad - I skimmed your post and didn't catch the distinction between colony #1 and colony #2.
Warning: Antarans in dimensional portal are closer than they appear.

MiniMe
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Re: 5905 Feedback

#15 Post by MiniMe »

Two things about this screenshot:

1. The invade button does not show for the outpost. I believe this is the same problem which i mentioned here:
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7315&p=59549&hilit=outpost#p59549
I bet my money, that when i get visibility of a colony of the outpost-owner, i will be able to invade.

2. AI did not capture the outpost. It had more than enough troop ships, as evident by the battle-log.

Image

Edit: the save game is too large to attach. If needed, i'll look for a file-hoster (i think no1 has ever been able to open one of my saves anyway :? )

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