Page 1 of 2

AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 12:56 pm
by LordTim
Just started playing version 4.5 and I notice early on that an enemy scout ship is in a system that is fairly close to my home planet. The interesting thing is it had to pass through a system with a sentry to get there. In all my games played and I have played LOTS this issue has existed. It has not been limited to scouts though I have seen colony ships pass through systems as well and low level warships. I have never once had a scout or any ship pass through a system with a monster and survive unless it was a more advanced war ship which could take the damage.

Now the really interesting part was that I sent an outpost ship to this same system and it was destroyed. I then sent a lowly frigate and it too was destroyed yet here sits in that same system a enemy scout ship. That is all you can see there.

Anyone else had this experience?

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:06 pm
by Geoff the Medio
LordTim wrote:That is all you can see there.
Could you attach a screenshot, or better yet, a saved game?

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:31 pm
by LordTim
Sure here is one. I have a new robotic hull warship that was also just destroyed there.

Also, have to eat my words a bit now though. Just had an outpost ship pass through a system with a Dyson Forest hidden in it and said it took some damage but made it through. First time I have ever had a non-warship survive a monster encounter.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 1:37 pm
by LordTim
It was tough whatever it was.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:34 pm
by Toastmartin
I think the small white "scout" ship is a symbol for a stealthed ship that destoyed you before you could have a look at it. Maybe an asteroid snail or some other monster with stealth? What does the combat log say?
By the way: Even weak ships can pass through space monster-system when the monster is distracted by your war ships, that are there several turns. Maintenance ships for example don't longer block your supply lanes or travel of civil ships if there is a warship (immune with defense grid) at its location.

also, if I may give you a kind advice: It my be a good idea to develop your research stronger. If you only have 10 research points per turn on turn 50, that might be bad for the development of your empire. Also those monsters are easier with some defense grid, lasers, scanners.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:52 pm
by LordTim
Possibly, not something that was in the prior version I was playing.

Thanks for the advice but I am just feeling it out and while it looks like I am not allocating enough research but only one planet is focused on research out of the 3 I own in this game. The rest are either outposts or have a special such as Caretaker's Fruit so obviously I want to take advantage of that special.

It is also important to note that with a potential enemy that close my focus will be shifted to ship building so I can either defend myself or conquer him. The AI is much easier to take down if you catch him early in the game and provides your empire with some valuable resources most notably their ability to colonize other planet types and/or take advantage of their specialties.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:33 pm
by mem359
LordTim wrote:Thanks for the advice but I am just feeling it out and while it looks like I am not allocating enough research but only one planet is focused on research out of the 3 I own in this game.
For most games, my starting Tech queue is the same:
Planetary Ecology
Subterranean Habitation
Algorithmic Elegance
Nascent Artificial Intelligence <-- this is the one you want

Without any research focus, you will get NAI by turn 22.
You could even move the Learning techs in first, and get NAI by turn 15.

With 3 colonized planets (including your homeworld), that is a minimum of 11 RP (5 for Cultural Archives, 3 x 2 due to NAI). Colonize a fourth planet, or switch one of them to Research focus, and you will have a lot more RPs to play with.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:41 pm
by defaultuser
It helps if you start with a species that has a research bonus, like Chato.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:36 am
by MatGB
mem359 wrote: For most games, my starting Tech queue is the same:
Planetary Ecology
Subterranean Habitation
Algorithmic Elegance
Nascent Artificial Intelligence <-- this is the one you want
Agreed, but I have a caveat based on what species I'm playing and their preferred (starting) focus.

Humans and Etty have preferred focus: research so start on research and thus are maxed out already, so queuing Algorithmic Elegence first gives you a bigger boost to early research output, which is what I tend to want. Whereas Gysache and Chato start on Industry, so queueing the population boosts make more sense as by the time you're researching AlgEleg you still won't have maxed out.

In those cases the population boost kicks in earlier and so you start to get immediate benefits from production and habitability, etc. Obviously, there are always exceptions, if there's an Adequate world in my home system and I can't find a nearby Good then PlanEc is a priority. If I'm playing with AIs or a Dyson Forest very very close I might throw in Mass Driver 2 very early.

The only race I don't switch entirely to research on all worlds in the early game is Egassem, the combination of low population and bad research makes it a negligible benefit, they have to go out and grab early territory quickly, especially natives. Other Bad Research species get switched out of research when I've got Nascent AI unless an obvious target appears (like a good research native world or similar).

Back to initial topic: there have been some occasions where I'm not 100% sure that stealth or combat is working properly between monsters and AI, but I've never been able to get enough observation to replicate it, it's always worth noting that sometimes there might be stealth effects you can't see or similar, and to get past a monster you only need survive the combat.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:54 am
by LordTim
That is the basic starting tech build I use. However with what looked like an enemy close by I shifted research to ship builds.

Still not sure what the ship icon there was as I have only ever seen it represent an player ship.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 11:44 am
by MatGB
A white scout icon is used to represent any unknown threat. It's almost certainly an Asteroid Snail.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:07 pm
by Scara
I just had the case of a big snowflake not destroying my scout ship, but I guess it's all right after looking at combat log.
As there are three settled planets in the system the fight took place, the snowflake hit only two of the planets with its three shots. This way my scout survived the battle with luck. I took the screen shot a turn after the fight, so my scout is already retreating to arbol and the snowflake is just coming back to vaza.

A small thing I just saw, the battle definitely took place turn 110, but the combat log says 109, I checked 109 no battle at vaza...
Bildschirmfoto198.jpg
Bildschirmfoto198.jpg (78.49 KiB) Viewed 624 times

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:56 am
by LordTim
So what is an Asteroid Snail? Do not see it in the pedia.

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:09 am
by Vezzra
LordTim wrote:So what is an Asteroid Snail? Do not see it in the pedia.
Pedia Index -> Monster Types -> Asteroid Snail

Re: AI Ships Immune to space monsters?

Posted: Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:25 am
by LordTim
Asteroid Snail?