Do the Monster Frequency Settings work?

[LordTim]

On the older version I was playing I always turned this option off since even on a low setting those things seemed to multiply like cockroaches. So since I just started playing version 4.5 I thought I would turn this option back on to see if it was viable. Nope, can't do it. Seems about turn 60ish these things start to really begin producing. So where I went from seeing 1 at about turn 40 at around turn 60 there are several now and I have barely exposed any space around my home system.

I cannot imagine what this would look like if it was set to high.

First SS is turn 63 and you can see I am headed to take out the Dyson Forest blocking my starlane.

Turn63Screenshot.jpg (204.62 KiB) Viewed 946 times

Second SS is turn 67 and now you can see them showing up and moving around.

Turn67Screenshot.jpg (241 KiB) Viewed 946 times

From my previous experiences these continue to get worse as the game goes on.

[Toastmartin]

As far as I can tell with version 0.45 the setting IS working. You have to take a closer look at the monsters and understand their behaviour:
Drone factories produce drones.
Dyson Forsests produce floaters wich can grow another Dyson forest.
Kraken nests at gas giants produces krankens .. wich grow.
Acrimera planets produce sentries (independent of the monster setting)
Planetary specials sometimes produce guardians, only infuenced by the monster-setting if turned completely off

Long story short: Most of the sources for monsters (drone factories, Dyson forests, Kraken-Nests, experimentor-outpost) are influenced by the monsters setting. Some sources (specials, Acrimera) are not. If you leave those sources alone, they will swarm you.

[LordTim]

Yes, I understand where and how they work. Just wondering what the settings really do in the game?

At low the monster frequency would be calculated how? What is the factor being used to calculate their frequency?

I also vaguely remembering if you capture a planet with say a Kraken Nest and you had researched the capability you could take over the nest and have the Kraken's under your control. That still exist?

Also, I started a new game to turn them off. In doing so now the normal monsters not part of that setting are extremely low. If you check the SS for turn 25 you can see I have exposed a large section of space (thanks to all of those random refueling systems) but have seen only one sentry.

Turn25 Screenshot.jpg (302.74 KiB) Viewed 940 times

This does not affect the play or present game problems but in my experience is very low compared to older versions and when compared to the previous SS I have posted showing the moving monsters. Also curious to note how many planets have native species on the medium setting. This appears to generate native planets with more frequency than the older version with the same settings. Nav B1 and B2 both have native species as well. Just can't tell because I captured them.

[MatGB]

After feedback from players, it was decided that the 'None' setting for monsters should also apply to Sentries and Sentinels, but not to Guard Ships as they're a species specific built-by-the-natives thing.

None and Low for monsters definitely works. The best advice I can give from your screenshots is to research Active Radar earlier than you are and chase down the Floaters that reveals before they seed more Dyson forests. Also, kill Dyson Forests as soon as possible regardless.

You can still capture Kraken Nests etc, and more stuff is planned for that at some point.

Hunt monsters, kill monsters, they're then not a problem. If you let the young monsters and floaters survive they'll become more of a problem over time.

[LordTim]

Bummer. I like the randomness of the Sentries and Sentinels. Plus this also offers some potential protection early in the game if you are close to an enemy and many times offers the ability to use them just as their name implies by not having to defend that system if a Sentinel is present. At least until much later in the game. I noticed the HP's of Sentinels are now lower too so would imagine that reduces their effectiveness in the scenario I just described.

I get it players did not like them especially if you have ever started off in an arm of a spiral galaxy and found yourself cut off from expansion by Sentinels on both sides of you.

I myself would have preferred a separate option setting for these apart from the Monster Frequency Setting.

[defaultuser]

I would not be averse to separate control of roaming monsters and stationary ones.

[Vezzra]

Yes, I understand where and how they work. Just wondering what the settings really do in the game?

These settings determine the initial distribution of space monsters during universe generation and the chance of monster nest creation during the first couple of turns. They should have no effect on the "replication rate" of monsters during the game (that is, how much monsters a monster nests or how much floaters a dyson forests spawns etc.)

At low the monster frequency would be calculated how? What is the factor being used to calculate their frequency?

The monster frequency determines the basic chance for monster spawning, which gets multiplied by the spawn rates of the different monster types to get the actual chance for a specific monster to spawn.

The basic chance values can be found in default/python/universe_generation/universe_tables.py, MONSTER_FREQUENCY table (0 meaning 0 and 1 meaning 100%, so the current values there are 3.3% for low, 12.5% for medium, 33.3% for high setting). This chance is basically applied per system.

I also vaguely remembering if you capture a planet with say a Kraken Nest and you had researched the capability you could take over the nest and have the Kraken's under your control. That still exist?

Yes.

[MatGB]

The monster frequency determines the basic chance for monster spawning, which gets multiplied by the spawn rates of the different monster types to get the actual chance for a specific monster to spawn.

Actually, that was changed relatively recently (by Dilvish IIRC, not me that's for sure)

Code: Select all

        EffectsGroup
            scope = Source
            activation = AND [
                Planet
                Turn low = 10
                Unowned
                Random probability = 0.12 * GalaxyMonsterFrequency / 2.0
            ]
            stackinggroup = "@1@_NEST_STACK"
            effects = CreateShip designname = "SM_@1@_1"

As GalaxyMonsterFrequency gives a number between 0 (None) and 3 (High), the maths is relatively obvious.

[Vezzra]

Actually, that was changed relatively recently (by Dilvish IIRC, not me that's for sure)

Code: Select all

        EffectsGroup
            scope = Source
            activation = AND [
                Planet
                Turn low = 10
                Unowned
                Random probability = 0.12 * GalaxyMonsterFrequency / 2.0
            ]
            stackinggroup = "@1@_NEST_STACK"
            effects = CreateShip designname = "SM_@1@_1"

Hm. Not sure if I like these current numbers much. First of all, the calculation is different for unowned vs. empire owned monster nests. They should be the same. And what's the problem with trying to imitate the formula used by the universe generation process as closely as possible?

[MatGB]

I have no strong opinions. I am thinking from recent games that spawn rates might be a bit too high for 'medium', if I'm finding myself slightly swamped then others will be.

[Vezzra]

I am thinking from recent games that spawn rates might be a bit too high for 'medium'

Well, that's something we need to address of course, but still a different matter. Anyway, by all means, go ahead and adjust the numbers.

[AndrewW]

I have no strong opinions. I am thinking from recent games that spawn rates might be a bit too high for 'medium', if I'm finding myself slightly swamped then others will be.

Yup, I've certainly seen that happen.