My personal strategy guide

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def-mornahan
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#31 Post by def-mornahan » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:14 pm

@ LGM,
I've read a fair bit already in the forum, including this thread, for instructions and ideas. I'm well aware that the current version is 0.4.6, but if I were to commit that level of effort to compiling from source in the future I'll probably get the development version and actually try to post bug reports and much more specific feedback. I might even try learning Python or something once I'm out of work in May (!). Meanwhile, 0.4.5 is already pretty fun...

I really only went to the trouble of writing out my little newbie diary in this thread because I'd specifically tried the full bio hull route, and several times in this thread others mentioned that they hadn't really gone that way, so I thought it would be useful information to have here for those curious. I read the release notes for 0.4.6 to check and make sure the bio hull techs weren't mentioned as being completely overhauled in this version before posting.

Ophiuchus
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#32 Post by Ophiuchus » Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:59 pm

def-mornahan wrote:Still, the bio hulls are rough. Very little innate structure even after 30 turns, and my warships ain't getting 30 turns to grow....
Oh, the other thing on which I've wasted some amount of direct research effort AND mis-selection of hulls to research is stealth. ...
Having stealth >50 is not so hard with bio. And AI doesnt prioritize detection for higher. Send a fleet of those into battle and the enemy cant shoot back the first turn. If you take out all your enemies in the first turn, you have no losses.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Vezzra
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#33 Post by Vezzra » Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:06 pm

def-mornahan wrote:I played a fair bit of Space Empires IV back in the day
Oh, welcome fellow SEIV veteran! ;) I've been into the SE series myself - played SE3, 4 and 5. With SEIV I even participated in multiplayer games hosted on the SE4 PBW server provided by Geoschmo... have fond memories of the epic "Newbe Galactic Combat III" game :D

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MatGB
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#34 Post by MatGB » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:10 am

Yeah, the Organic Line hulls aren't as good at brute force, you need to be subtle and know what you're using to get them at their best: personally I rate them as the most powerful line against the AI, but you need to stealth up and play carefully.

Thanks for the feedback, and welcome, I look forward to more.
Mat Bowles

Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

def-mornahan
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#35 Post by def-mornahan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:35 pm

You guys are very welcoming! I appreciate that, and again, this is an amazing game.

I'll throw in one last detail for any fellow n00bs who might be reading this thread...after I posted my first message and went back to the game, I realized that the AI empires now could not figure out how to land troops on my planets any more, and stopped bombarding them. Ok, I apologize, stealth is awesome...!

The AI is meanwhile not letting up on the gas in terms of production and research points. I'm mostly staying ahead on RP per turn, but PP I've been behind forever and I'm clearly going to have to think up something clever in order to get past the 8k/10k of iron in orbit around my old forward construction yard system...

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Oberlus
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#36 Post by Oberlus » Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:10 pm

My personal guide for early game in galaxies with 20+ systems per player.

Flat bonuses (nascent AI and adaptive autom.) are everything at the start regardless the species.

Therefore, my base starting research queue is always as this:

Code: Select all

// Main techs (research and production)
Algorithmic elegance
Nascent AI
Robotic production
Nanotech production
Adaptive automation
// Secondary techs (growth for even more research and production)
Planetary Ecology
Subterranean Habitation
Simbiotic Biology
// Tertiary techs (military power for even more research and production)
Laser weapons
Force-Field Harmonics
Zortrium armour
Military robotic control
This is not the order in which I get them, but the order in which I queue them.

I use the starting colony to get the "best" nearby planet with good habitability. What's best: if there are more than one candidates, I'll get the one that is further away from my homeworld if it will be supply connected after colonisation, otherwise just the closest one.

My first item in the production queue would be a colony or an outpost ship, depending on the proximity and habitability of the second-to-get planet. If it will be supply-connected, outpost ship is the way to go, otherwise colony ship.

Given that in order to get the most from the flat bonuses you need the most planets, growth techs may be upped a few spots if I need them to put into use the colony/outpost ships. That is, if there is no good-habitability planet that will be supply-connected for my starting colony, but there are some adequate planets that will, planetary ecology gets bumped up between alg. elegance and nascent AI except for bad research species for which I put it the first in the queue (i.e. start putting some RPs on it from the first turn). If there are not even adequate planets but there are some poor, then Subt. hab. and Simb. Bio. must be upped too.

I get mass drivers only if (i) playing with a bad research + good(or better) production species, (ii) there is a nearby planet guarded by easy monsters (usually sentries) and (iii) there is no other nearby planet candidate for colonisation. For those species, if I've had bad luck with the nearby planets, I also put The Physical Brain at some place among the first three spots of the queue (the worse the luck, the upper I place it) to get Historical Archives (+5 RPs!) early on.
If I'm not one of those species with bad research and great prod., but I still need one such monster-guarded planet (because there is no other available in the proximities), I just say "live sucks" and stick to the starting plan, scouting for better, further away planets and placing outpost ships on not-yet-habitable planets to expand my supply and to prepare for future colonisation once I get the necessary growth techs.

I place Force-Field Harmonics before Zortrium Armour because that +3 shield can make it damn easy (with proper weapons) to get down some guarding monsters and colonise very nice planets. Otherwise (i.e. I don't need to get down any monster), I just don't care which of the four starting military techs I get first since I won't be producing any ship until I get all four.

Finally, I only queue Orbital Construction (at the right spot so that it gets completed at the precise time I will need it) if I will be colonising/outposting a planet that is just 1 system away from my supply range. Otherwise, it can be delayed until I plan to get anything that requires it.

defaultuser
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#37 Post by defaultuser » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:48 pm

I agree with a fair amount of it. I disagree about the ships. I build a lot of robotic hull + basic armor + mass driver 4 ships. You can use those against close-in maintenance ships pretty effectively, especially once you get three built. Having them shielded is handy but I'd rather get going earlier. Most games I will research the starting military tech much sooner.

I research Exobots pretty early most of the time, except maybe when playing Cray. That's especially true if I uncover a robotic special, as that will allow colonizing tundra and especially asteroids with only Symbiotic.

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Oberlus
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#38 Post by Oberlus » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:15 am

defaultuser wrote:I research Exobots pretty early most of the time, except maybe when playing Cray. That's especially true if I uncover a robotic special, as that will allow colonizing tundra and especially asteroids with only Symbiotic.
Usually, exobots is my next tech in my list. I can bump it up if the colony/outpost ships and colony buildings leave some excess PPs and I (will) have asteroid in colonised systems. Even if Cray, obviously. But won't colonise non-robotic-special planets if I have (or will have in a few turns) other (better) species for which the planet is adequate or good. Otherwise I build exobots right away in any habitable planet and later use concentration camps to clear for better species.
defaultuser wrote:I build a lot of robotic hull + basic armor + mass driver 4 ships. You can use those against close-in maintenance ships pretty effectively, especially once you get three built. Having them shielded is handy but I'd rather get going earlier. Most games I will research the starting military tech much sooner.
Yeah, I do that very often in more crowdes maps (15- systems per player) or if many monsters nearby and not enough free planets to colonise. Specially with Egassem, for which you may keep a fast colonisation speed and yet get some excess PPs for early combat fleet.
Certainly there is a tradeof on getting laser first. You can get mass driver 4 in 6 turns for a total of R0 PPs, while first laser takes 8 turns and 60 RPs. However, with bad production and good research species I favour getting the military techs of that list before starting production because that way I save some badly needed PPs for ealier colonisation and also get a first combat fleet that will last way longer in the game than with basic techs.

Thinker55
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#39 Post by Thinker55 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm

There seem to be a lot of knowledge holes out there. Taming monsters? How do you DO that? Is there any benefit to scrapping a ship? I've seen the discussion -- but not the resolution. Love the game -- I played MOO 1 through 3 and loved them -- and this is a great extension. I note that you don't see combat, like you did in MOO. That's probably no loss, since it is based upon relative fleet strength, but it was -- what? Cute? It would be nice if you could find your fleets without searching every world to locate them. That's the big lack that I see in v0.4.8 -- or, again, am I missing something?

AndrewW
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#40 Post by AndrewW » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:32 am

Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
There seem to be a lot of knowledge holes out there. Taming monsters? How do you DO that?
Research Domesticated Mega Fauna and have an outpost or colony where there is a Juggernaught, Kraken or Snowflake nest.
Or find a planet with a Kraken special and resurrect one.
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
Is there any benefit to scrapping a ship? I've seen the discussion -- but not the resolution.
Yes, this will result in lower fleet upkeep costs which increase the cost of subsequent ships you build.
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
Love the game -- I played MOO 1 through 3 and loved them -- and this is a great extension. I note that you don't see combat, like you did in MOO. That's probably no loss, since it is based upon relative fleet strength, but it was -- what? Cute?
Tactical combat was planned at one point.
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
It would be nice if you could find your fleets without searching every world to locate them. That's the big lack that I see in v0.4.8 -- or, again, am I missing something?
Try making use of the objects menu, you can filter for what you want to find.

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Oberlus
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#41 Post by Oberlus » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:42 am

Ouch, AndewW was faster than me. Well, anyway...
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
Is there any benefit to scrapping a ship? I've seen the discussion -- but not the resolution.
More wordly: currently (until Influence is implemented), each new ship costs you built costs more PPs than its base cost depending on the number of ships you control (but not their size). It is called Fleet Upkeep. You can check the Pedia entry for that, under "Game Concepts -> Ship Management", and search on the source code for it to see the actual formulation.
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
you don't see combat, like you did in MOO. That's probably no loss, since it is based upon relative fleet strength, but it was -- what? Cute?
It would be eye-candy indeed. But no one has had the time to implement it. There was some ancient work on that, preparing the 3D layout for the battle, but was never finished (browse for 3D, visual, combat, simulator, interactive, and the such). Understandable because FO focus is on avoiding micro-management and allowing fast gameplay, plus there are many important features that haven't been implemented yet. You can expect that once FO gets into beta phase (maybe before mankind runs out of fossil fuels) someone will devote some time to it.
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
It would be nice if you could find your fleets without searching every world to locate them. That's the big lack that I see in v0.4.8 -- or, again, am I missing something?
You can use the Objects window. To view your fleets (and only your fleets), open it, click on Filters, deselect everything and select (visible) fleets and ships, and apply the filter "Owner Empire" with the corresponding Empire name. You'll see something like this:
ObjectsWindowOwnFleets.jpg
ObjectsWindowOwnFleets.jpg (163.7 KiB) Viewed 1057 times
You can tinker with the column headers to show different attributes (I guess you can select remaining HP from the many available options). In fact, you should change some of the default columns, since "Planet size" isn't relevant for ships.

Thinker55
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#42 Post by Thinker55 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:46 pm

Thanks! Much needed info -- very informative! Question: Do you have to put a robotic outpost on a gas giant to get the industry out of it, or will a regular one do?

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Re: My personal strategy guide

#43 Post by Jaumito » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:32 pm

Thinker55 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:46 pm
Thanks! Much needed info -- very informative! Question: Do you have to put a robotic outpost on a gas giant to get the industry out of it, or will a regular one do?
"Robotic" here is relevant only to the ship hull you use to ferry all the stuff you'll need to build an outpost, but the outposts themselves are all of the same kind. So yes, a regular one will do - it just may be delivered later, as the ship is a bit slower.

Ophiuchus
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#44 Post by Ophiuchus » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:03 pm

Oberlus wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:42 am
Thinker55 wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:29 pm
you don't see combat, like you did in MOO. That's probably no loss, since it is based upon relative fleet strength, but it was -- what? Cute?
It would be eye-candy indeed. But no one has had the time to implement it. There was some ancient work on that, preparing the 3D layout for the battle, but was never finished (browse for 3D, visual, combat, simulator, interactive, and the such). Understandable because FO focus is on avoiding micro-management and allowing fast gameplay, plus there are many important features that haven't been implemented yet. You can expect that once FO gets into beta phase (maybe before mankind runs out of fossil fuels) someone will devote some time to it.
Graphical combat ... If this comes then likely in one of the following forms:
  • nicer visualisation of combat reports (no user input) - may lead to insight how the combat system actually works
  • a non-default combat system (for single player and/or live multiplayers) enabled by some rule at the beginning of the game
Tactical combat ... If this comes then likely in one of the following forms:
  • very broad user setting of tactical options before combat starts; via empire policy or system/fleet settings. ATM the only thing there is is the passive/agressive setting.
  • more meaningful fleet design / ship design options (different targeting of different ship parts is planned for next release 0.4.9)
  • a non-default combat system (for single player and/or live multiplayers) enabled by some rule at the beginning of the game
Don't hold your breath for a non-default combat system though.
Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

Furthermore, I propse... we should default to four combat rounds instead of three ...for the good of playerkind.

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Oberlus
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Re: My personal strategy guide

#45 Post by Oberlus » Tue Jan 15, 2019 3:14 pm

Jaumito wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:32 pm
Thinker55 wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:46 pm
Thanks! Much needed info -- very informative! Question: Do you have to put a robotic outpost on a gas giant to get the industry out of it, or will a regular one do?
"Robotic" here is relevant only to the ship hull you use to ferry all the stuff you'll need to build an outpost, but the outposts themselves are all of the same kind. So yes, a regular one will do - it just may be delivered later, as the ship is a bit slower.
@Thinker55, plus, to get the industry boost from the GG (boost on the other owned colonies of the same system) you need to build a Gas Giant Generator in the GG. And to be able to build anything on it, you first need to own it (by outposting it).

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