Whenever i see someone complain that the game is moving away from the "great and perfect Moo2"... i breathe a great sigh of relief.
I agree. Who did?
Besides FO has ALWAYS been about gameplay, not repeative build queues and no brainer decsions just so the player can feel like he is doing something.
Yes. No brainer decisions can be automated; the player needs not be bothered with them. No reason to discard everything that makes the game colorful because it is related to such automatable decisions though.
Is pensive a bad thing? I never thought so before.
Absolutely not! I was pleased that you became pensive rather than just showing an overbearing (not to say offensive) behavior like some others in this thread. The problem is that there is no sign of these considerations having been taken into account when the decision was made.
FO with system queues, or FO with locally pool production (Daveybaby's thingy) might have been cool too. All of the above still might come to be, thanks to the GPLed code.
The problem is that in any software project, the later mistakes are recognized the higher the cost to correct them. Aquitaine knows that, or he would not execute such a professional approach with clearly predefined version steps and lots of discussion before writing the requirement specification. That is why I was so surprised he swept away all concerns so easily this time. (I know you protest, Aquitaine, but that is how it looked. Your decision was in ignorance of where the discussion had developed to.)
When the project is finally done, some mods may introduce some kind of localized production (I suppose that is what you mean, drek), but then the whole project, including all subsequent design decisions, is based on the pool model. Of course you can scamp in some localized production rather quickly, but it will not fit into the way the game has been designed. Modding the finally completed FO 1.0 into localized production and still making all parts of the game interact with each other in a reasonable manner would mean revamping half of the game if done properly.
Uh, a building cannot be placed if it is not constructed? What?
The expression "being placed" is too much of a honor for a "building" that is not really being built. Let's face it: There are no regular infrastructure buildings. There are just some tech upgrades that bear the name of buildings. These upgrades are not placed or built on automatic, Tyreth - they are not built at all! The planets have lost this feature that would have allowed you to watch them grow up and prosper, seeing one of the buildings you researched after another being erected as the planet develops. All you will be watching is an infrastructure slider slowly moving to the right (or up or whatever it will be displayed like).
I never said the player must order all these buildings manually (like in MoO2), PowerCrazy. It is np if it happens on automatic, following a reasonable build order. Still you will have experiences like: "Hey, my new world just finished the Planetary Supercomputer! Cool!" rather than "hey, the slider of the research meter of my new world just moved another .5 inches to the right...".
Frankly, you're mistaken about the system.
Perhaps I am, but in that case I am not sure whether it is because I am too foolish to get it, or if you have not explained it properly. After all your leader Tyreth expressed the assumption that we still have buildings, which are placed automatically and are being erected so that they can be displayed on the planetary screen. This contradicts your statements that buildings are reduced to mere tech improvements that effect the infrastructure meter.
It seems to me as though you are making a lot of assumptions
I am interpreting the information you have given away the way I have understood it. If that leaves room for lots of wrong assumptions, then you did not express yourself clearly enough.
and that you aren't even fairly considering what was passed since you decided beforehand that you don't like it.
Now you are "assuming" something... I explained my concerns in great detail and got no response other than several people saying that I got a good point. drek said he would consider them and reply later, but the thread was closed before he got the chance, and you did not care to drop a single word concerning them.
This conversation is coming dangerously close to trolldom, so I suggest you either find a point in this discussion besides just griping (in which case I will move it to Rants and Raves) or let the thread die.
Please excuse my lack of education (might be because I am no native English speaker), but I am not sure about the exact meaning of the fashion word "trolldom" (along with its variants like "to troll"). I can guess its meaning at best. And the only meaning I could find for "griping" in the dictionary is a disease in the viscera...
Trying to interpret your words the way they appear to be meant (do not blame me if I misunderstand you this time), one point of this thread is to make up for/discuss the missing explanation of your decision which clearly was in favor of pool production although the corresponding discussion thread was way from being unanimous in that respect. I also wanted to shed a clear light upon the consequences that this decision, which I regard a major mistake, will have upon the project. On this background, I am of the opinion that the topic is appropiately placed in "General Discussion" (unless you cannot deal with criticism). It is not my fault that a few other participants became cynical in their replies (although I am all in all positively impressed by the discipline of the discussion in these forums).
We have a meters and focus settings for each planet. Try to rename it to DEA preferences for a planet... You can't immediately see resulting effects of your settings - just like DEA plans for governors.
Yes, but some time later I will be able to check out in detail what "attachments" my DEAs have built - and what planetary-level buildings have been erected on either my or my viceroy's command. All MoO3 lacks (in this respect) is a beautiful graphics displaying the developed planet. In FO, you will not have "buildings" that deserve that name - because buildings have been degraded to mere tech upgrades. As the consequence, the only thing you will watch erected on your planets is the infrastructure meter.
So maybe i'm wrong, but IMHO from a gameplay perspective FO economy is like MoO3 without governors and with some additional micro and calculations on top of that.
I do not see where the additional micro and calculations should come from. Your example of the 1 starlane radius improvement is what the "semi-wonder" idea aims for, and this is an idea I like. Then again, MoO3 already included it, so it is nothing "additional" as you put it. (MoO3 had several DEAs (like the Recreation DEA) with an outreach effect that influenced neighboring systems.)
I don't know why someone think that these ideas reduce micromanagement. IMHO this system just makes micromanagement worse because you must calculate results of your actions for all empire instead of some local object.
Micromanagement: Handling things on a local (in our case: planetary) scale, meaning to babysit every single planet
Macromanagement: Handling things on a broader scale, with interplanetary or even empire-spanning effects as the scope.
So what you are saying actually means that not micro, but macro is increased. And that is our goal. That is also what daveybaby has not understood: that I am not proposing excessive MoO2-type micro. I would just like to have real worlds with real buildings (not abstract meters) developing, with the no-brainer decisions being made on automatic (sparing the player with them but still having him watch the outcome). The DEA attachments of MoO3 are a good example for this. You do not have to build them manually, but still they are real buildings that are erected. The real problem in MoO3 are the planetary buildings and DEAs, which the viceroy chooses in a foolish manner (unless you disable him and micro all planets on your own).
In reply to:
So you find one or two which are producing an amount similar to the excess, and change their focus to produce something else instead.
Yes, that's why i don't worry too much. But then it's a "no brainer decision". Also, it's better suited for AI.
If you take away even the choice of planetary focus from the player, then you can as well automate the whole economy and limit the player to conducting the fleet. Whether such a game can still be considered MoO-type remains to be discussed...