I'm here - introduction

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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#226 Post by Bromstarzan »

Ah, perfectly understable now when you mention it, Mat!
I should have payed attention to the scanlines (as I always have previously). I like the scanlines indication, really - it should tell me not to rely on the information at this given point.

Following below is an extract of questions and comments I asked myself when starting to play FreeOrion back in December 2015. Several of these questions have been answered by you, the great FreeOrion community already. Still, many of these thoughts have not been vented here (trying to save you from too many noob questions). All of the comments bellow relate to me playing as Human on the easier levels and cluster maps.

Perhaps it can give you, the developers, a picture of what a beginner faces when starting fresh. I also think the questions/comments can amuse you :mrgreen:

Please note, I'm not expecting you to dig in and answer/comment on each and everyone of these notes, but if you wish you could pick out certain areas where you feel you could shed some light, especially with the changes to the latter builds.

Again; these were notes to myself! Also apologize if some lines are complete greek (no offence Greece)!

BUILD [build 2015-09-01.f203162]
- When you have research tree staked out- What to build, should I create ship designs and build better ships than stock/defaults? Better hull-ships?
- Why would I want to place Outposts - seems there are mostly "useless"(?) Gasgiants that come in question?
- go for colonies (how many do I need before turn 100?) or tech to exploit gas giants/asteroid belts/other (early)uninhabitable areas?
- Things that generate Industry PP? Outpost on a Gas-giant?
- generally good to have one Research planet and other focus on Industry?
- love the fact that nebulas form new stars - different sizes, different stages?
- is there a way to "draw" new star lanes (connecting nodes - Stargates?)
- as human, what do I use gas giants for? - production, Gas Giant Generator takes some turns to show up in building list? (must have industry focus?)
- as a beginner, it is hard to optimize between production, research, growth (play more)
- does "seed" generate different connections between systems? or just where the enemy is located etc? (I guess I could find out by making a few starts!)
- what ships and weapons to use against planets - softening before ground troops?
- How to take over neutrals? (invade)
- Are supply lines interrupted by distance or solely by other species? (neutrals for instance)
- Does it matter "where" I build a ship etc in terms of time to construct? Or is this just a matter of where to deploy? Doesn't matter, deployment important, but some planets may not fulfill the requirements to build certain ships (nano-tech, neutron-tech etc)
- Rough estimate of military power - still quite equal at turn 145 at Beginners level. It would be nice to give beginners more confidence, lol
- keep 1 awesome fleet and move it around or 2-3 good fleets or 10 mediocre?
- how to gain access to better hulls?
- Path to exploit the asteoroid fields? (from human) Exobots?
- do I need to take over all species planets in order to gain their specials?
- when troops have droped, can they be reused, i.e. transpored back onto troop ship (after invasion?)? Nope
- suggestion: right click on system/fleet brings up a notepad that lets you attach a note to the object (and assign a color/icon that sticks to it)
- on my beginner playthrough: PP 105 at turn 167, RP 29.4, ships 42, population 140, Empire detection 30.
- Suggestion: For a beginner, very hard to decide what gives what - mindmap?
- Can I transfer pop from one system to another? In order to increase PP?
- How to optimize Research (RP), short and long term perspectives - what learning to go for etc.?
- How to maximize population (guess it has an impact on RP?), research and build Exobots?
- can I build a "very" stealthy scout? YES
- The ship "Design Starts" icon list is "very blurry"/inhomogeneous - would be nice to see a homogeneous presentation of the various hulls (icons in the same style - simplistic bluprints for instance) Also the big picture - keep it simple and same artistic style!
- The balance of "beginner" setting? I think it works... I do manage?
- contrasting lines on supply lanes = PP is wasted?
- generally harder to gain RP than PP (considering Gas giants give PP bonuses but no RP etc)?
- maybe I build too many ships - maintenance costs PP/RP?
- seem to be able to unlock far to few buildings, even at turn 192 only a few (5-6) buildings are unlocked?
- The gas giants dont produce any PP? with only outpost and gas generator? (or just lagging 2-3 turns to get started?)
- do I need to place outpost at Gas Giant in order to make use of Solar Orbital Generator? or Gas generator? Is the Gas Giant supposed to show Industry points? (red cog wheel = 0 now?)
- went to a system with 8 decoys, with no firepower according to intelligence, destroyed a couple, then waited a turn and was wiped out by? Planetary Defence network and Protection focus? Yes!
-Space Elevator at turn 203? Do I need to build on every star system? Or do the infrastructure transfer over star supply lanes?
- as it now, one tends to
- The graphs, "Ships destroyed in combat" = The ones I have destroyed or the ones I have lost?
- Distance is of importance (AU) since you might want to jump between nodes in one go (to avoid Spatioal Distortion)
- About buildings/construction - I seem to have an imbalance Ships vs Buildings, do not really want to build more ships, but I can't build anything that I dont already have? Feels like I'm wasting PP on stuff that I don't need -> solution, more research in growth and construction earlier in the game?
- Would be good if the pedia indicated if tech has been researched or not (like the color codes of the various techs in the Pedia!)
- Wh can I not build a Gas Giant Generator? Click the individual planet in the system list!!!
- What unlocks hulls? I cannot seem to eveolve into the unavailable department?
- Suggestion: Visual presentation (around system) of defence strenth + shield (dircles of various colors and thickness)?
- How to increase population on any given planet?
- oups! lost my entire fleet after destroing an enemy fleet just because planetary defence took over..., I guess? A warning or suggestion not to start bombardment in place?
- Solar generator, only one at interconnected Supply-line groups?
- Strategy/means for measuring and breaking a strong planetary defence?
- Go early for mid-combat logistics? Upgrade to drydocks etc?
- I think I still (@266) have buildings unlocked due to poor research (RP)!
- Orbital habitation - Things that increase population!! What is Research a function of? (population?), also Industry function of f(x)?
- any tech that allows ships to "turn back" when in interspace?
- Setting up a fleet, only one ship in fleet need active radar for instance, then others can use slots for fire-power? Is that part of concept?
- It's cool to see that for example, star-lane speed gets added by various techs, lighthouse etc!
- Field repair is(should be) good for blockades!?
- Nova Bomb!!!?
- Does detection 25 beat stealth 5 by 20 units, i.e is that a how one should understand it when sending in ships against ships (scout chances of passing by armed forces undetected)? Yes, that's how it is according to game concepts pedia!
- Planetary starlane + planetary beacon seem quite odd (useless) - do not waste RP! Or what if I move a "Fortress" planet to a strategic position?
- I don't understand the ship part Robotic interface: Shields?
- Tip to oneself: Think of a good system to name ship designs while they evolve/develop to more powerful/costly vessels! The same goes for fleets and other purpose ships (outposts/troops/scouts etc)
- I have not really considered the Ion storms or the Molecular clouds... maybe I should.. especially before an invasion!
- Start to outline the concept - what adds to planets PP/RP/pop/etc/etc, what adds to ships, starlanes, detection etc - categorize!!
- Why, if a building says/cost 250PP and your current PP is 238, can you still build it? I know it's spread out over turns, but, yeah, I need to read up on that!
- you don't upgrade already built ships, need to build new (with better design)?
- Invade neutral: Neutral has 6 troops, 0 shield, 0 defence. I have 20 troops, shield 0. structure 30. The "Invade" button says (+10)? How is this calculated and what does it mean. That I will succeed and still have 10 troops on the planet (or loose 10?) Is it because the present species are bad ground troops (Abaddoni)
- Is there a way to extract the stats that are shown in the Game - Graphs? Where are the numbers?
- Blades figures at turn 211: PP 253, RP 231, ships 36, Pop 484, detection 50
- Broms figures at turn 323: PP 262, RP 569, ships 102, Pop 393, detection 50
- MatGB: zero point in having sensors on warships!
- Flagships (with shields/structure) accompanied by smaller frigates with firepower!
- All planets/asteorids needs an outpost if I want to colonize them. However, resources/shield may pour in without outpost?
- Completed/not completed research in the object list?
- Need to understand "Gateway to the void" - effect (destroys all that don't pass planet in the turn) applies to your own ship also?
- Suggestion: when mousing over Empire Research: Show what tech/research is adding up/complete to total!?
- Suggestion: when mousing over Empire Detection: Show what techs adding up to total!?
- Suggestion: when mousing over Empire Ships: show an interactive list of all fleets (could replace/complement the object list?)
- Instead of holding deep space nodes (and loosing ships), find a planet that can be set to defend!
- when building ships - a tool to compare designs and costs/turns! (make my own?)
- Can a planet be sent to Deep Space if there is an outpost there? That have built a Beacon?
Can a Beacon be built in deep space?
- Entering mass production at turn 368! RP currently at 760, PP at 697, Pop 470
- Solar Hull do not show in Research tree?
- Why can I not upgrade my Industrial center -> Greater -> Supreme (I have the tech)?
- Ok, so for Planetary star-lane drive to work the send-planet must have a "Human" (player) colony - doesn't work with exobots or other nonplayer species?
- öh, jo, det tog bara lite tid innan den sparkade igång valet? eller?
- Why is my PP going down? What have I changed?
- Minesweepers? Trying to invade, but don't get to the ground, lol
- maybe build some better troops?
- cannot invade more than one planet/asteorid belt/gas giant at a time, must arrive with troops for just that single invasion?
- Suggestion: Some kind of graphics (ring) around systems to indicate defence strength?
- Need to clarify on the mines thing, included in "barrier" or what defence mechanism?
- Planetary Starlane drive - how does it work? I Built a drive on a Fortress, and a Beacon on an outpost (far away) + Lighthose in same beacon system! Correct? Setting focus at "send" planet does nothing.
- Industrial centers: Greater and Supreme don't show in the PP bonuses directly (or create a new icon in the building list), it just gets added when research is done (check research tree if unsure if the bonus has kicked in!) - So depending on upgrade type, an icon gets shown in the building list under each planet. Keep in mind and look at tooltips!
- Can you create an Artificial planet in deep space?
- How to keep the mental notes? Considered an "attached note" system with color/icon codes?
- Not only do I need to research and produce parts of different tech, I also need to build it at certain locations/environments (Black holes, neutron star etc). List the key deep space objects that allow for special tech/production? (note to myself, Solar Hull needs black hole, Neutron star is needed for plating/speed)
- does it matter how I place ship components, shields, guns etc?
- Functions (suggestion?) to escort Outpost ship/Colony Ship? Or du I simply have to "guard" deep space?
- Interstellar Lighthouse may have adverse (negative) effects on your own fleet (depending on stealth technology etc)
- Seems there is a delicate balance between attacking a star system and getting the troops to the ground, can I send them in before shields/defences are down? Is it the meaning to design an invasionfleet with spaceshipstriker's + troop ships that can go "down" at the same time? Or do I need to "clear" their way by eliminating both orbiting ships/mines and shields and defences?
- DONT MERGE FLEETS IN TOP LIST == CRASH!
- Concept: Enough ships to establish colony, then do the system defences deter the enemy from attack? Usually, who, different species? Do I need to ask this question again? Proceedure for invading system, now I gather ships to overcome enemyships + defences + shields, then keeping them there to prevent rebuilding defences and at the same time sending in the troops. What is the wise thing to do? Is there different tactics depending on defending species? Ok, so tried a combination of flagships + troop ships and it allowed me to wipe out the ship defences + shield + planetary defance + allowing me to designate my troops to all the system planests!
- Honeycomb special is quite sweet! Increases industry drastically!
- Suggestion: Icon cyborgs in fleet display, to differentiate between simple and advanced troops? (one can go via Pedia to confirm, but would b handy to see in the fleet list?)
- So, again, invading a well defended system: 1) send in ships on turn 1 to bring down ships+shield+defences and in turn 2 bring in troops to override total amound of ground troops (difference cyborgs vs normal troops?).
- OBS! When invading, syncronize fleets with different speed via ETA indication (hold back the faster ships)

============ Other game notes ===============
- weapon 93, health 95 -> all destroyed when entering Bach a, heavily defended!
It was "sneaking" in with stealth 5, not enough?
- Test: Gas giant with a gas generator generates no PP (well my planet gets +10 in PP! It does however provide shields (41), defence (20), it also benefits from developed techs adding to the stats. So, placing an outpost do the following improvement/nothing: ? I simply cannot place an outpost on a Gas giant before turning it into artificial planet?
- Going in on a neutral planet (Selexians) with no shield/defences, but 13 troops, with only with 20 troops - what happens?

- need to synthesise strategy into - Go for Growth -> learning -> research -> defences -> detection -> Arming ::: What order? and when in time?
- Maybe not go for several research brances, instead decide on a Hull and Weaponry branch!

- Yes, ou can lure fleets away from target by flanking out with a small decaoy fleet, sweet.

- Neutronstar is good - in late game - allows for extreme armor! bl.a.
- using stargates to colonize difficult systems?

- at turn 444 I watched a new star forming! :)

- at turn 469: Testing fleet (1.9k) + troops (160) against roughly 1.5k shield and defence and 150 troops. Ok, so tried a combination of flagships + troop ships and it allowed me to wipe out the ship defences + shield + planetary defance + allowing me to designate my troops to all the system planests! 3/4 planets were taken, but mines damaged me so the last one is still enemy - conclusion: have backup troops nearby!

============ Build 160321 =============
- The fonts are too big! (can change in the options menu!)
- My favourite layout is capped by the enlarged system stats (play on multiple displays).
- Why can I no longer have 2 Pedias open?
- Set tooltip pop-up delay to 100 instead of 500? No chgange in terms of flickering pop-up.

- So, outposts or colony ship? to start building? What if I place an outpost at Swamp planet (-4 for humans)? Outposts create vision + supply lines, no resources!

- So apparently you can only build troop ships on a planet up until the actual number of troops available on that planet (I was wondering why my (3 x troop ships) was completely paid for, but not being built (until I increased the troop capacity of that planet).)

- Seems my Troop ship stops production at 1 turn left? Not enough troops on planet?

- The object list needs to increase functionality, ex filter "Ships" = Troops, etc
- More growth/research before building up troops?
- How about colonizing a planet that is not populated by a species in a system, but other planets are...?
- so what to do when suitability is minus (-) but you want to send an outpost ship to prepare colonisation (later on, it might turn into plus (+)). Will the outpost generate any advantage before colonising the unsuitable planet?
- When Laser 4 is available, do I need to design/build new ships with new technology, or are the whole fleet upgraded - wherever they are?
====================================================================================

I will keep a record of the Q/A of this as I'm building my "mindmap" for FO.
More Q to come and I look forward to the next RC. You're doing a fantastic job creating this superb game!
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defaultuser
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#227 Post by defaultuser »

Bromstarzan wrote: Not sure whether you're looking for response but I will throw some out. I will ignore factual questions, as you should know those by now. If not, ask specifically.

BUILD [build 2015-09-01.f203162]
- When you have research tree staked out- What to build, should I create ship designs and build better ships than stock/defaults? Better hull-ships?
Personally, I always start with Adaptive Automation, but when it's queued, slide Nascent AI up one spot. These are flat-rate for every inhabited planet regardless of focus. After that it depends on what the scouts are finding and the species being played.

- Why would I want to place Outposts - seems there are mostly "useless"(?) Gasgiants that come in question?
Even gas giants help with planetary defenses (I don't worry too much about that). Also there are a number of things that can be built at outposts, most important being Gas Giant Generator.

- go for colonies (how many do I need before turn 100?) or tech to exploit gas giants/asteroid belts/other (early)uninhabitable areas?
Colonies are my primary focus in early game. That, with AA and NAI get your base numbers up.

- generally good to have one Research planet and other focus on Industry?
Again depends a lot. But I usually have everyone on research early.

- is there a way to "draw" new star lanes (connecting nodes - Stargates?)
Starlane Bore. Stargates provide instantaneous (well one turn) travel between gates.

- keep 1 awesome fleet and move it around or 2-3 good fleets or 10 mediocre?
Usually not one, unless you like having your territory overrun. Exact makeup depends on the map and opponents.

- I think I still (@266) have buildings unlocked due to poor research (RP)!
In any given game, I have many if not a majority of buildings and other tech not researched. There's no prize for most buildings unlocked. Research what you need.

- I don't understand the ship part Robotic interface: Shields?
If you have robot-piloted ships with those shields, then all the ones at the same location combine shield strength.

- Tip to oneself: Think of a good system to name ship designs while they evolve/develop to more powerful/costly vessels!
I use short coded names, usually acronyms or abbreviations.

- All planets/asteorids needs an outpost if I want to colonize them. However, resources/shield may pour in without outpost?
I don't understand this question.

- Completed/not completed research in the object list?
- Need to understand "Gateway to the void" - effect (destroys all that don't pass planet in the turn) applies to your own ship also?
Most people here seem to disdain or ignore the GttV. I have used it to my advantage in the right circumstances. And yes, it will destroy your ships. However, movement takes place first, so you can actually build a ship at a world where there is a GttV and move it out safely.

- Instead of holding deep space nodes (and loosing ships), find a planet that can be set to defend!
I don't like using research on planetary defenses. The best defense is fleet superiority!

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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#228 Post by Bromstarzan »

As I pointed out, I don't expect answers, but merely wanted to vent the sort of questions running through my head when I played my first rounds. As you know, much of it is covered in the wiki, but can seem hard to understand from a beginners point of view. Some I have answered myself, after a couple of play-throughs.

However, I do appreciate (very much) you taking the time to clarify some aspects from the list. I'll go over the list and ask specifically if I'm still stuck in oblivion.
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LGM-Doyle
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#229 Post by LGM-Doyle »

Bromstarzam thanks for taking the time to write up your beginner experience.

Everyone only gets one and the feedback is valuable.

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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#230 Post by Bromstarzan »

MatGB wrote:You have, at some point, seen that fleet stationary there, it may even have killed one of your scouts.

Until you see that ship somewhere else or get visibility of the system again you 'know' it was there, the scanlines over the pictures indicate you don't currently have visibility (and we really need to improve the UI of how we display this in some way).
@MatGB; This is indeed the case, and I'm happy to report that with the launch of another scout into the system, the enemy fleet was indeed gone - and all intel lost. As should be. Just lovin this game!

@LGM-Doyle; no problem at all. First I thought it could be amusing for you vets/devs to see what goes on in a beginners head. Then I realized it could be of some value if I just posted my notes. It is fun to play a game that is so "random", yet following defined rules. Endless playability and interesting algorithms. I personally prefer games that focus on the map (want to spend most of my time there) and FreeOrion is just that!
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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#231 Post by Bromstarzan »

So, I'm still hanging around FO Build 160419 and having a good time with the (unbalanced) troops and invasion options.
Should I now update to recent testbuilds for any particular reason, perhaps to give proper feedback on latest version?

I know there is a RC coming, so I was sort of awaiting this before I mess with the summer updates. Sorry that I have not been able to provide any useful feedback during the summer months.
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The Silent One
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#232 Post by The Silent One »

Bromstarzan wrote:So, I'm still hanging around FO Build 160419 and having a good time with the (unbalanced) troops and invasion options.
Should I now update to recent testbuilds for any particular reason, perhaps to give proper feedback on latest version?
We'll soon see the first release candidates for 0.4.6, any testing of these will be very helpful.
Bromstarzan wrote:I know there is a RC coming [...]
Exactly :)
If I provided any images, code, scripts or other content here, it's released under GPL 2.0 and CC-BY-SA 3.0.

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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#233 Post by Bromstarzan »

Looking forward to the next RC.
My little daughter has grown a bit now and needs less acute attention, so I'll pass that attention over to FO during autumn :lol:
Yesterday I also bought Master of Orion and Paradox Stellaris, just to see how they compare with FO.
Don't worry, I don't think those games will take up too much of my spare time (compared to FO). :mrgreen:
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#234 Post by Bromstarzan »

Great stuff this new RC 046!
Just doing my first playthrough and like what I see :D
Thanks for great efforts to push FO to this new level. Will try to deliver useful feedback anytime soon.
/Broms
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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#235 Post by Bromstarzan »

1. How to effectively deal with (many) comsats defending a system you try to invade? Any good countermeasures other than just fleet force?
I eventually decimated an Eaxaw colony with numerous Comsats circling the system, enough to invade and take over. However, I'm not sure I followed the most effecient way, so if there's a tech/ship that deals better with comsats than just firepower/shields, I'd be happy to know.
2. Can you pick up "Floaters", and their parts for example? No?
3. Why not call the "Monsters" for "Aliens" instead? Monsters sounds a bit kindergarten? It doesn't affect gameplay, just wondering if there's been a discussion on the wording...
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MatGB
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#236 Post by MatGB »

At the moment, brute force, or simply build some very very cheap mass driver/no armour roboships and throw them in for the first round then follow up: it's mass of shots you need not high power shots.

However, hopefully, relatively soon there's Fighters and that changes the whole thing completely.
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MatGB
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#237 Post by MatGB »

Bromstarzan wrote: 2. Can you pick up "Floaters", and their parts for example? No?
No, they're basically seed pods, we want to do more for monsters at some point but it's a lower priority.
3. Why not call the "Monsters" for "Aliens" instead? Monsters sounds a bit kindergarten? It doesn't affect gameplay, just wondering if there's been a discussion on the wording...
Aliens is everything not from where you are, it's a catch all term that would include all species not native to your homeworld (or even people from a different part of your homeworld), space monsters are space monsters. They exist in so many SF backgrounds, this Brit isn't quite sure what kindergarten is but is fairly sure some of the stuff he's watched with space monsters in wouldn't be allowed to be shown there.
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Any code or patches in anything posted here is released under the CC and GPL licences in use for the FO project.

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Bromstarzan
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#238 Post by Bromstarzan »

1. Waves of brute force, ok got it. Looking forward to the implementation of fighters, eventually.
2. Got it, no real benefit chasing them down to aquire specials (at the moment).
3. Fair enough, lets stick to "Monsters" then. :D

Having a blast in FO, as always! Thanks, MatGB, for your swift responses (again, as always!) :D

Btw, it seems by version v0.4.6 (release 0909) I no longer have issues with flickering mouse controls.
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defaultuser
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#239 Post by defaultuser »

Kindergarten is the first year of school in most school systems, usually attended by five-year-olds. It is (or was in my day) much less structured than typical school and focused on social interaction, cooperative play, art, learning to pay attention, etc. Things might be different these days.

In my day, it was usually the first time a child left home for structured activities, and was often the scene of tears from both the child and mother. These days, many kids have been going to preschool for years. It was typically a half-day then, probably full day now.

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EricF
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Re: I'm here - introduction

#240 Post by EricF »

Massive Unidentified Space Organism? MUSO? :D

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