Hi there,
I'm a big fan of MoO2 and while looking for mods i found your site.
I'd like you to know that for me, it is a down right mistery what this game is about. i found the information on the site to be very complicated (regarding the installation) and after reading a few pages i am still unsure as to what i should expect.
Maybe this is just not a game for the "newbie" but if i am mistaking you might want to do something about the way newcommers wil experience your website.
Djurre
newbies
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Geoff the Medio
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What information do you feel is missing (if you know enough to know what you don't know and want to know...)?
The "Introduction" link on the Main Page of the wiki summarizes the project in a sentence:
Our aim is to build a great, opensource space turn based strategy game.
Do you want a more in-depth introduction than that? What information do you need that's not covered by other links on the Main Page? Do you feel there should be more about what the current status of the project is? (See the Roadmap) Perhaps more about the inspiration for for the project? (See the Vision Statement) Maybe something about the design philosophy or practical aspects of development? (See the Game Design page, specifically "A brief overview of the design process and boards")
It would be helpful if you could be more specific about what's currently missing, from your perspective as a someone completely new to the project.
The "Introduction" link on the Main Page of the wiki summarizes the project in a sentence:
Our aim is to build a great, opensource space turn based strategy game.
Do you want a more in-depth introduction than that? What information do you need that's not covered by other links on the Main Page? Do you feel there should be more about what the current status of the project is? (See the Roadmap) Perhaps more about the inspiration for for the project? (See the Vision Statement) Maybe something about the design philosophy or practical aspects of development? (See the Game Design page, specifically "A brief overview of the design process and boards")
It would be helpful if you could be more specific about what's currently missing, from your perspective as a someone completely new to the project.
Maybe he should be told that the game is not complete. That version 0.3 is downloadable, but it is in no way a complete game. And he may be having difficulty figuring out how to install the game, which file to download, etc.
Oh and our aim is also to build a better version of Moo2 (not in the Master Of Orion universe), while bringing together ideas from many of our favourite 4X games, except Moo3, because Moo3s failure is the reason FreeOrion exists.
Oh and our aim is also to build a better version of Moo2 (not in the Master Of Orion universe), while bringing together ideas from many of our favourite 4X games, except Moo3, because Moo3s failure is the reason FreeOrion exists.
Although, by that reasoning, wouldn't it be a good idea to try and make the installers as friendly as possible so you end up with a variety of ideas and more playtesting?
Getting a great 4x game should involve input from folks who aren't necessarily hard core programmers/geeks. MOO3 was a failure not because it wasn't playable (it was great if you took forever to get to learn it) it was a failure because it wasn't friendly to casual or new players to the genre.
Just a thought.
Getting a great 4x game should involve input from folks who aren't necessarily hard core programmers/geeks. MOO3 was a failure not because it wasn't playable (it was great if you took forever to get to learn it) it was a failure because it wasn't friendly to casual or new players to the genre.
Just a thought.
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Moriarty
- Dyson Forest
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They do have a good point here.
The problem with many Open Source projects is that they are made for hard-core users, and are beyond useless for newbies to the field.
The single best example is GIMP.
Sure it might be on par with Photoshop, but the interface is about as friendly as a brick to the head.
At present I don't think FOO has this problem, but it's certainly something to remember for later releases.
The problem with many Open Source projects is that they are made for hard-core users, and are beyond useless for newbies to the field.
The single best example is GIMP.
Sure it might be on par with Photoshop, but the interface is about as friendly as a brick to the head.
At present I don't think FOO has this problem, but it's certainly something to remember for later releases.
I think the biggest problem to a newbie like me is that the information about the game is fragmented into different threads so the main page doesn´t really give you a clear picture of the game and decisions that have been already made.
Personally I don`t think this is a problem, because searching information from different locations isn`t a problem for me. Also as the game is still under construction and the main focus is probably in designing the game this kind of thing is quite natural.
But I think that you should probably make a new web design before the version 1.0 is released if you want to get large numbers of players outside this community, as the current amount of information really doesn`t give a clear picture about the project.
Personally I don`t think this is a problem, because searching information from different locations isn`t a problem for me. Also as the game is still under construction and the main focus is probably in designing the game this kind of thing is quite natural.
But I think that you should probably make a new web design before the version 1.0 is released if you want to get large numbers of players outside this community, as the current amount of information really doesn`t give a clear picture about the project.
Last edited by MikkoM on Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Geoff the Medio
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Could you give some suggestions about what sort of information should be more available and how it could be organized?
We have links to the design requirements on the main page, which is pretty much all the officially made decisions so far...
What else is needed? Organizational information? A better general introduction (covering what?)?
We have links to the design requirements on the main page, which is pretty much all the officially made decisions so far...
What else is needed? Organizational information? A better general introduction (covering what?)?
A better general introduction could be one thing as it could contain some information about the decisions that have been already made and so reduce the fragmentation of information.Geoff the Medio wrote:Could you give some suggestions about what sort of information should be more available and how it could be organized?
We have links to the design requirements on the main page, which is pretty much all the officially made decisions so far...
What else is needed? Organizational information? A better general introduction (covering what?)?
And atleast before the version 1.0 is released you could have a section in the introduction describing what these kinds of games are all about, as now it just says that the game has been inspired by MOO. Now what that means is obvious for those readers, like me, who have played the MOO games, but it tells nothing to the people who have never played any of the MOO games. So I think you could also have a more detailed explanation of what the MOO kinds of games are all about.
I just noticed that you can get information about the MOO games, but that information is behind many links. So maybe you could just place this kind of information in the introduction like I suggested.
Last edited by MikkoM on Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Geoff the Medio
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You mention fragmentation of information... does that mean you have a problem with wiki-style links to other pages that describe terms such as "4X" or what the MOO games were, while the general FO introduction just references (with a link) these terms assuming they are understood?
Right now the introduction does essentially what I describe, with links to MOO and 4X, though those pages are rather lacking at the moment, which doesn't help much.
Also, as you somewhat mention, the current focus of the site is mostly on development, rather than an introduction for potential players, though that will likely change somewhat for v1.0.
Also also, feel free to edit the wiki yourself to improve any section you think needs work. If a section is protected, it's probably due to previous vandalism, and I can unprotect it on request.
Right now the introduction does essentially what I describe, with links to MOO and 4X, though those pages are rather lacking at the moment, which doesn't help much.
Also, as you somewhat mention, the current focus of the site is mostly on development, rather than an introduction for potential players, though that will likely change somewhat for v1.0.
Also also, feel free to edit the wiki yourself to improve any section you think needs work. If a section is protected, it's probably due to previous vandalism, and I can unprotect it on request.
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Geoff the Medio
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The fuel thread is brainstorming, not an official design thread, and so is not really suitable for putting in an official or official-looking wiki article. In the event that a public review for fuel is held, whatever result comes from it would be written into the next version of the design document, which would be on the wiki, similar to the existing requirements documents for previous versions of the design.
That said, if you or someone else wants to make your own wiki page about how you think fuel should work, feel free. It just probably won't be linked from the main page or the offical design-related pages.
That said, if you or someone else wants to make your own wiki page about how you think fuel should work, feel free. It just probably won't be linked from the main page or the offical design-related pages.
well, true. but since a wiki is a living document, I think it's fairly well suited for brainstorming.
the way it works on wikipedia is that discussion takes place on the discussion page for a particular topic, and the current/end result is placed on the topic page. we could have a freeorion.org/wiki/Brainstorm/0.4/Fuel page. The various points of view could be listed on the main page, with discussion/voting about the views taking place in the discussion section. Once it was finalized, it would get moved to /wiki/Design/0.4/Fuel or whatever.
A clear disclaimer could be posted on all the brainstorming pages, so as not to confuse them with official, finalized pages.
the way it works on wikipedia is that discussion takes place on the discussion page for a particular topic, and the current/end result is placed on the topic page. we could have a freeorion.org/wiki/Brainstorm/0.4/Fuel page. The various points of view could be listed on the main page, with discussion/voting about the views taking place in the discussion section. Once it was finalized, it would get moved to /wiki/Design/0.4/Fuel or whatever.
A clear disclaimer could be posted on all the brainstorming pages, so as not to confuse them with official, finalized pages.
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Geoff the Medio
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We use the forums for brainstorming, and aren't going to switch to wiki discussions.
That said, even if we weren't already using the forums, a forum system is just more appropriate for this sort of discussion, which is a long-running flowing debate and involves wide-diverging topics and sub-topics. A wiki is better suited to writing an article on a topic that has some measurable correctness or abstract quality... However FO brainstorming is generally an exchange of differing viewpoints that changes significantly over time. So, if someone wants to understand the discussion, they're going to have to read the whole thing anyway. In that case, the temporal flow of the discussion is an important part of understanding it, unlike a wiki article which is trying to describe some truth that is (relatively) consistent and independent of the flow of the discussion about it, or a wiki discussion which is effectively a nested topic discussion that hides the temporal flow of the discussion that's readily apparent in a linear-time-ordered forum thread listing.
That also said, if you want to summarize a bunch of forum threads on wiki pages, feel free, but don't expect many people to read it when there's already a forum thread, and don't expect anyone else to help maintain it... or yourself to keep interested long enough to make it worthwhile.
That said, even if we weren't already using the forums, a forum system is just more appropriate for this sort of discussion, which is a long-running flowing debate and involves wide-diverging topics and sub-topics. A wiki is better suited to writing an article on a topic that has some measurable correctness or abstract quality... However FO brainstorming is generally an exchange of differing viewpoints that changes significantly over time. So, if someone wants to understand the discussion, they're going to have to read the whole thing anyway. In that case, the temporal flow of the discussion is an important part of understanding it, unlike a wiki article which is trying to describe some truth that is (relatively) consistent and independent of the flow of the discussion about it, or a wiki discussion which is effectively a nested topic discussion that hides the temporal flow of the discussion that's readily apparent in a linear-time-ordered forum thread listing.
That also said, if you want to summarize a bunch of forum threads on wiki pages, feel free, but don't expect many people to read it when there's already a forum thread, and don't expect anyone else to help maintain it... or yourself to keep interested long enough to make it worthwhile.
nice!
Hi all,
I've been a big fan of MoO since the first one in the early 90's. I'm not a coder, but I'd love to help with flushing out the story or events and whatnot.
I'm excited to have stumbled across this project (while bored at work, randomly looking up videogame wikies).
-proxy
I've been a big fan of MoO since the first one in the early 90's. I'm not a coder, but I'd love to help with flushing out the story or events and whatnot.
I'm excited to have stumbled across this project (while bored at work, randomly looking up videogame wikies).
-proxy