Gateway to the Void needs a buff

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.
Message
Author
User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#1 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:59 am

Right now there is no real use case for it. Enemy player will just see it on planet and will just fly through.
It will wipe out populatuon and take tons of time to build but provide NO benefits.
Suggestion:
make it also destroy any fleet that tries to pass this system. Then it can be used to actually block lanes in cases when you don't need anything there. Also should block supply.

Enhancements:
Void Stabilization tech : allows friendly fleets to pass friendly Gateways of the Void unharmed
Void Rift tech : 20 IU area around every friendly Gateway of the Void becomes the Utter Void. Displayed as solid black color on galaxy map. Its radius will grow by 5 IU every turn. Everything that gets into it disappears - ships, stars, supply lines. Void Stabilization does not apply anymore (friendly stuff is consumed aswell). Will grow indefinetely, this process can not be stopped. Will consume entire galaxy in time. To be used at your own risk.

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#2 Post by Voker57 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:23 pm

Agree on changing GtV properties, but "enhancements" are unfunny overpowered garbage.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#3 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:24 pm

How exactly are they overpowered?

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#4 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:34 pm

Void Rift will be available in very late game, in era of titanic or solar hulls.
To use it, you must build GoV first. If you build it inside your empire - the Utter Void will do more harm to you than to enemy. It would work if you build GoV deep inside enemy territory, but this isn't that easy. And as Rift Void applies to every GoV built you must consider very carefully whether it's safe to research it ir not.
In some cases getting to Void Rift may change tides for losing empire. I.e. if it was constantly retreating from powerful enemy but left some GoV behind. Void Rift research is still realky expensive, thiugh, but if you manafe to get it - you will do serious damage to enemy (his larger empire will be getting eaten by the Utter Void so he will havevto act quickly to destroy you until it's too late).

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#5 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:37 pm

In my opinion, late game should be rough and extremely dangerous, as galaxy moves closer to the end of all things.

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#6 Post by Voker57 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 1:19 pm

Void Rift tech : 20 IU area around every friendly Gateway of the Void becomes the Utter Void. Displayed as solid black color on galaxy map. Its radius will grow by 5 IU every turn. Everything that gets into it disappears - ships, stars, supply lines. Void Stabilization does not apply anymore (friendly stuff is consumed aswell). Will grow indefinetely, this process can not be stopped. Will consume entire galaxy in time. To be used at your own risk.
Only use of this shit is to fuck up the game for everybody else when you're losing, as you are wont to do.
Void Stabilization tech : allows friendly fleets to pass friendly Gateways of the Void unharmed
GtV becomes no-brainer build everywhere on the galaxy edge and be invulnerable.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#7 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:04 pm

No, Void Rift can be used to win , if you:
1) managed to establish GoV in multiple places of galaxy
2) managed to move far enough from them
3) manage to defend yourself while the Utter Voids are expanding (and it's a SLOW process), and during that time basically everybody in galaxy will try to destroy you or invade / colonize stuff in your empire to be farther away from Voids
this strategy is really not that simple to perform.

What do you mean by "fuck up the game"?
If you let your enemy to build GoVs within your borders AND allowed him to reach Void Rift tech - it's all your own fault
If some losing player is on the brink of defeat, built GoVs on his every planet snd researched Void Rift - well, it's definetely a cool way to suicide, but he will only fuck up himself. A LOT of time will pass before his GoVs become a problem for other empires. Most of galaxy will still survive for 100-200 turns. But, yeah, it will add some adrenaline into game which is a good thing.

About Void Stabilization - maybe. I don't like it much anyway. But Void Rift should be kept.

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#8 Post by Voker57 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:14 pm

afwbkbc wrote:No, Void Rift can be used to win , if you:
1) managed to establish GoV in multiple places of galaxy
2) managed to move far enough from them
3) manage to defend yourself while the Utter Voids are expanding (and it's a SLOW process), and during that time basically everybody in galaxy will try to destroy you or invade / colonize stuff in your empire to be farther away from Voids
this strategy is really not that simple to perform.
Yes, so they would generally be used to screw up the galaxy instead.
What do you mean by "fuck up the game"?
Render the galaxy unsustainable, force game into zerg rush.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#9 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:38 pm

Render the galaxy unsustainable, force game into zerg rush.
Most of galaxy will remain intact much longer than any of our games lasted.

Basic math:
Let's assume galaxy is 5000x5000 IU.
Let's assume some player (i.e. L29Ah) was really really lucky and researched Void Rift on turn 100
Let's assume he is so lucky that conquered center of galaxy and put GotV in it by that time.
If void grows 5 IU / turn from the center of galaxy - it will take 500 turns to consume it all.
Even if he managed to put 4 GotV, one near each corner of galaxy (impossible situation actually) - it will still take 250 turns fir galaxy to be destroyed.
Ok, let'a divide by 2 to get period when most of ga;axy is intact.
225 turns. In INCREDIBLY LUCKY PRACTICALKY IMPOSSIBLE obstacles it will take 225 TURNS to 'fuck up game'.
In normal, average conditions it would require 300-500 turns.
Did we have any game that lasted past 200 turn? I hardly remember.
So, Void Rift is more of local disruption than global. You can't fuck up game before 225 even if you're lucky as fuck (egassem + scylior + kobuntura + misorla + honeycomb + early solar hulls and conquests). And if you are so advanced - you won't need to 'fuck up game', you can go with solars and win.
So Void Rift is more useful for players that are behind, and as defensive and harrasment tool, it can' be used to fuck up galaxy in reasonable time. It's a local thingie.

And even on local scale its balanced. If you see enemy built GotV near your important black hole - you can make or find another blackhole. If it's near important planets - you can move your planets away via Starlane Planetary Drive. I see no balance issues here.

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#10 Post by Voker57 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:59 pm

afwbkbc wrote: Let's assume galaxy is 5000x5000 IU.
200 system galaxy is about 2000x2000 IU.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#11 Post by afwbkbc » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:05 pm

Voker57 wrote:
afwbkbc wrote: Let's assume galaxy is 5000x5000 IU.
200 system galaxy is about 2000x2000 IU.
Ok, even then it will take too long to "fuck up game" using Void Rift. ~180 turns if you're unbelievably lucky (in which case you don't need to do it - you can just go and win with solars) and ~250-450 turns on average.
So not feasible to use it to "fuck up game" - too expensive. Is to be used only in specific circumstances which do not happen often.

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#12 Post by Voker57 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:01 pm

Game can be fucked up far before that point, if you consume some important systems (btw, what about experimentators?)
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

User avatar
afwbkbc
Pupating Mass
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:47 am

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#13 Post by afwbkbc » Fri Mar 24, 2017 3:17 pm

If you consumed important systems - then either you are good strategist or enemy is blind fool.
It's not that easy to pull it off.
It's not "fuck up of game", it's "winning strategy".
Anyway, any system can probably be replaced by other so no system loss is deadly.
And consuming Experimentators seems fine, I don't see any problrms arising from it.

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#14 Post by Voker57 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:30 pm

I find it very inconsistent that experimentators would just stand by and be consumed by void.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

User avatar
Voker57
Space Squid
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:46 pm

Re: Gateway to the Void needs a buff

#15 Post by Voker57 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:08 pm

Perhaps if it summoned experimentators' black kraken strike force on your ass and galaxy-wide sitrep with coordinates would be created on building start (and tech is somewhere near singularity) this could work.
Team S.M.A.C.: play multiplayer with us!

Post Reply