Technology : Mass Suicide

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afwbkbc
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Technology : Mass Suicide

#1 Post by afwbkbc » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:13 pm

Prerequisite : Architectural Psychology
Teaches and prepares population to quickly get rid of itself in case of emergency.
Add Mass Suicide planetary focus.

Focus : Mass Suicide
On next turn entire population of planet will die out. Requires no supply or industry to be performed.


Notes : this technology may be quite handy in some cases:
- enemy blockaded your Mu Ursh world and his troop ships are nearing to invade it. If he gets Mu Ursh, you'll lose. Now if you researched Mass Suicide you can let Mu Ursh wipe themselves out (and also scrap all buildings), leaving just empty outpost for enemy.
- you are losing and you have no watch to catch up. Formerly, you'd just give up and leave game but then enemy would capture your empire and become even more powerful, which will lead to him winning game against other remaining players. You don't want that, so you research Mass Suicide and let every of your planet's population kill itself, and also scrap all buildings. Then you will give up, but at least you'll know enemy won't get anything but empty planets from this victory.

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Voker57
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#2 Post by Voker57 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:18 pm

Sounds unfeasible. how about high-tech "planetary implosion/explosion charge" instead?
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afwbkbc
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#3 Post by afwbkbc » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:21 pm

Voker57 wrote:Sounds unfeasible. how about high-tech "planetary implosion/explosion charge" instead?
Sounds good, but should be more expensive to research.
Maybe this tech can go out of Mass Suicide and some Planetary Bombardment branches.

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Voker57
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#4 Post by Voker57 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:24 pm

Also activation should give you huge penalties all over your empire (res/ind until we have working happiness)
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afwbkbc
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#5 Post by afwbkbc » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:28 pm

Voker57 wrote:Also activation should give you huge penalties all over your empire (res/ind until we have working happiness)
Hmm, why? Properly implemented Mass Suicide will prevent any mass tensions or dislikes, i.e. species that wiped out themselves may be presented as heroes that saved empire at the cost of their lives.
I don't see anything bad in mass suicides.

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Voker57
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#6 Post by Voker57 » Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:48 pm

afwbkbc wrote:
Voker57 wrote:Also activation should give you huge penalties all over your empire (res/ind until we have working happiness)
Hmm, why? Properly implemented Mass Suicide will prevent any mass tensions or dislikes, i.e. species that wiped out themselves may be presented as heroes that saved empire at the cost of their lives.
I don't see anything bad in mass suicides.
Check your autistic privilege.
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#7 Post by L29Ah » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:56 pm

We're ruling an empire, remember? I don't get why would anyone kill oneself following an order from some emperor. It would maybe make sense for species like Volp-Uglush and George, but not your usual individualistic folk you're caring about most.
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Vezzra
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#8 Post by Vezzra » Sun Apr 02, 2017 1:26 pm

You can already do something like this: Concentration Camps. This will wipe out your colonies populations within a few turns, but during that process provide you with a massive industry boost. Giving you extra PP to emergency build a lot of ships you can throw at your enemy trying to maximize their losses. You might not have a chance to turn the tide, but still manage to inflict as much damage as possible. IMO better then just mass suiciding. If you are going to suicide, do it the kamikaze way.

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afwbkbc
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#9 Post by afwbkbc » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:37 pm

L29Ah wrote:We're ruling an empire, remember? I don't get why would anyone kill oneself following an order from some emperor. It would maybe make sense for species like Volp-Uglush and George, but not your usual individualistic folk you're caring about most.
You underestimate the power of psychology and brainwashing techniques.

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afwbkbc
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#10 Post by afwbkbc » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:44 pm

Vezzra wrote:You can already do something like this: Concentration Camps. This will wipe out your colonies populations within a few turns, but during that process provide you with a massive industry boost. Giving you extra PP to emergency build a lot of ships you can throw at your enemy trying to maximize their losses. You might not have a chance to turn the tide, but still manage to inflict as much damage as possible. IMO better then just mass suiciding. If you are going to suicide, do it the kamikaze way.
No, Concentration Camps are not fast enough to be emergency measure. If your planet is blocked - you typically won't be able to wipe out population with them, enemy won't just sit around and wait for it.
Concentration Camps have very different use cases than Mass Suicide.

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Dilvish
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#11 Post by Dilvish » Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:33 pm

afwbkbc wrote:You underestimate the power of psychology and brainwashing techniques.
But those techniques take time and resources to apply, whereas you are wanting something instant and free.
afwbkbc wrote:No, Concentration Camps are not fast enough to be emergency measure. If your planet is blocked - you typically won't be able to wipe out population with them, enemy won't just sit around and wait for it.
What does the planet being blocked have at all to do with using Conc Camps to clear the planet? Any empire having Concentration Camps or other tech at the level you propose for this Mass Suicide would already have Adaptive Automation providing more than enough PP to make the required building whether or not they were blockaded, so your concern does not make sense to me. Unless, perhaps you are contemplating a use scenario where you capture an enemy's planet and then instantly apply Mass Suicide?
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MatGB
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#12 Post by MatGB » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:02 am

- enemy blockaded your Mu Ursh world and his troop ships are nearing to invade it. If he gets Mu Ursh, you'll lose. Now if you researched Mass Suicide you can let Mu Ursh wipe themselves out (and also scrap all buildings), leaving just empty outpost for enemy.
- you are losing and you have no watch to catch up. Formerly, you'd just give up and leave game but then enemy would capture your empire and become even more powerful, which will lead to him winning game against other remaining players. You don't want that, so you research Mass Suicide and let every of your planet's population kill itself, and also scrap all buildings. Then you will give up, but at least you'll know enemy won't get anything but empty planets from this victory.
These are two of the strongest reasons I can think of to not implement such a mechanic. A sore loser trying to ruin the game isn't fun nor a good mechanic.

Reducing the steamroller advantage of capturing more planets quickly is a long term design and balance goal to which new and incomplete mechanics such as Happiness and Influence are partially addressed.

Salt- the- Earth / burn- the- cornfields as an extreme strategy is something we could consider after those are in place but mass suicide or similar isn't going to be the way we do such a thing.
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afwbkbc
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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#13 Post by afwbkbc » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:32 am

But those techniques take time and resources to apply
Yes, both are included in RP cost.
Any empire having Concentration Camps or other tech at the level you propose for this Mass Suicide would already have Adaptive Automation providing more than enough PP to make the required building whether or not they were blockaded
It will still take many turns until population dies out entirely. But enemy troop ships may be just 1 turn away, so with Concentration Camps you won't prevent him from taking Mu Ursh and then destroying you with them.

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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#14 Post by afwbkbc » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:34 am

ruin the game
What? The game won't be ruined, it will just slowdown steamrolling. And in tactical cases it will prevent enemy from taking important species.

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Re: Technology : Mass Suicide

#15 Post by em3 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:55 am

I'd vote for demolition charge, which requires one turn to activate, then destroys the planet (converts to an asteroid belt?), damages all colonies and ships in the system and provides major maluses for both happiness and species allegiance (and maybe a diplomatic stigma as well).

Alternatively, you could add separate techs for, for example, infecting your population with bio-terror virus that wipes them out slowly, but also makes them unusable for colonization (any colonies would carry the same pathogen).

There could be also a psychic bomb or EMP that destroys robotic species (and damages colonies and ships in system).

...
[...] for Man has earned his right to hold this planet against all comers, by virtue of occasionally producing someone totally batshit insane. - Randall Munroe, title text to xkcd #556

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