When is defeat defeat?

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MatGB
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When is defeat defeat?

#1 Post by MatGB » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:57 am

We currently have a few different points in which parts of the game engine discount a player, they're inconsistent. It would be good if there was a general consistency and at that point the victory/defeat sitrep was issued.

Specifically, until we move a lot of effects out of the Species effects folder and into more appropriate locations (to reduce lag), at the point the last populated non-Exobot planet was captured outposts and similar would go to zero shields/defence/troops, making mopping them up easy. Perhaps too easy.

Making that change was a good thing but you then have to go through and send warships and troops to defeat the remnant outposts (and any straggling vessels). This can be annoying. Today I've found a bug, If there are only outposts left, then some of the maluses that normally apply cease to do so. I just captured the last planet held by Green. Last turn, Jua was in my supply as the gas giant -2 gave it a net supply of zero
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Now as can be seen that net zero is up to 1 because the gas giant malus is gone.
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Screenshot_20170725_084847.png (176.18 KiB) Viewed 223 times
In addition, the troop numbers will now start to rise, because for some reason I can't figure out the Outpost malus isn't applying, it's displaying as if it is but then there's an 'unknown' replacing it. This isn't the first time I've noticed this but it's the first time I've had a clear example
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So a) we need to agree then sort out the scripts/engines so that residual outposts work correctly and consistently and b) we need to decide if defeat is as currently all colonies, outposts and ships of all types or whether it should be colonies, troop ships and armed ships.

There could even be a minor diplomacy thing here where remaining assets are gifted to a player.

Can anyone see what I'm missing with that weird outpost/unknown thing? Also, the planet size based supply malus out to work for all planets not just owned ones, neutral natives don't get it either which can be misleading.
Mat Bowles

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Vezzra
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Re: When is defeat defeat?

#2 Post by Vezzra » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:41 pm

Can you open issues on github for the outright bugs (mali stopping to apply)? Loosing the last colony shouldn't have any impact on remaining outposts, at least no positive impact.

The fundamental question, when is an empire defeated (and the player removed from the game), is quite difficult. As Geoff repeatedly pointed out in the past when this question ha been raised, in theory an empire that has lost everything could still be "resurrected" by another empire giving some ships and/or colonies to the dead empire. Whatever the reason might be for such a move.

The question is, do we want to offer that feature? Because, if yes, I actually don't know what could constitute "defeat" then...

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Oberlus
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Re: When is defeat defeat?

#3 Post by Oberlus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:57 pm

Vezzra wrote:The fundamental question, when is an empire defeated (and the player removed from the game), is quite difficult. As Geoff repeatedly pointed out in the past when this question ha been raised, in theory an empire that has lost everything could still be "resurrected" by another empire giving some ships and/or colonies to the dead empire. Whatever the reason might be for such a move.

The question is, do we want to offer that feature? Because, if yes, I actually don't know what could constitute "defeat" then...
IMO, an empire that can no more conquer or colonise new planets is defeated, so the defeat condition would be not having any colonised planets nor colony ships nor troopships nor [outpost ships or outposted planet plus exobot tech].

If someone can give ships to a "deceased" empire (understanding it as an empire that no longer has any citizen nor the chance to get them by itself), I guess you could also give ships to a non existent empire (one that has never had any citizen) effectively creating new empires. In any of those two cases, I'd say "what's the point for creating new or resurrecting enemies (that can't win unless you are making them more than half your current power)?".

LGM-Doyle
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Re: When is defeat defeat?

#4 Post by LGM-Doyle » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:43 pm

A human or AI player should be able to resign. Resigning should scrap all of their ships and revert any colonies and outputs to neutral status, but not otherwise nerf their assets.

The AI, whose reason for existence is to be fun to play against, should make a determination of when it is no longer a fun opponent, and then resign. This removes the un-fun mopping up stage of chasing down the last scout.

Humans on the other hand, may want to keep playing with their non-viable empire, watch the galaxy continue to unfold. wait for the friends to gift them stuff. It is a game. "Defeat" does not have to mean the end of the game.

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EricF
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Re: When is defeat defeat?

#5 Post by EricF » Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:17 pm

Yes, a "Demand Surrender" option would be nice, but there are no diplomacy mechanics so project for the future.

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