Instead of designing ships: design fleets

[utilae]

While I think we should keep design, I do have an idea that kind of moves design.

What if players designed ships in their own time. And then during the game selected their ships and build them. They would have to design a ship to counter every enemy strategy they could, but it would be fun. Like if you could pick your pieces in chess (eg it would be fun to swap two bishops for two more horses).

The ships would have to be broad in design, ie you would not choose to have lasers on your ships or any specific weapon, but a weapon type (eg beam or missile), or maybe some kind of code, where your ship gets weapon X if it is researched, else it gets beam weapons or it gets weapons with piercing mod or something.

[Dreamer]

The ships would have to be broad in design, ie you would not choose to have lasers on your ships or any specific weapon, but a weapon type (eg beam or missile), or maybe some kind of code, where your ship gets weapon X if it is researched, else it gets beam weapons or it gets weapons with piercing mod or something.

I like the idea of simple ships. I would like to create ships specifying only size, desired behaviour, 2 kinds of weapon it specialices (between beam, missile, figthers, torpedos, bombs and assault troops). Maybe also armor, shields and engines but have them by default on max.

A ship (or every ship in a task force) uses some level of tech for the selected types of weapons and when a new beam (for example) becomes available then you get the option to update your existing ships to use it for a cost. (like in Moo1 when you got new cleaning tech). Optionally your ships should only upgrade slowly while they are at some base, spending production gradually.

This way is very simple to design ships and asign some kind of behaviour to task forces.

[Rapunzel]

I like the idea of simple ships. I would like to create ships specifying only size, desired behaviour, 2 kinds of weapon it specialices (between beam, missile, figthers, torpedos, bombs and assault troops). Maybe also armor, shields and engines but have them by default on max.

That would be identical to the proposal from drek. OK, not totaly identical, but it would essentially be the same
As you say you would put anything on max and olny choose size and weapontype. That is identical to using predefindes ships (layser corvet, laser battleship, roket battleship, rocket corvet, ...)
.
I rearly would like to have some more impact on the desighn and thus the strategy the disighn is usefull for.
By the way, having fully desighned ships is only usefull is you have full copntroll on battlegrounds (otehrwise you would have to figure out how to desighn ships, so that the AI uses them most efficently, whish is no fun at all). If there is no controll Predefindes ships, or simple plug and play ships like Dreamer suggested are sufficient.
BUT I rearly want full battle controll.

[Dreamer]

That is identical to using predefindes ships (layser corvet, laser battleship, roket battleship, rocket corvet, ...)
.

Exactly, but with 2 weapon types instead of one and maybe 1-2 specials. It's something in the middle from full customization and predefined ships (when you have 6 variables with other 6 options each you already have 46656 different combinations, a little too much for predefined stuff).

By the way, having fully desighned ships is only usefull is you have full copntroll on battlegrounds ... BUT I rearly want full battle controll.

Well I think some general comands and behaviours for task forces is as much complexity as I want. And more complexity always needs a far better AI to handle complex ship design and complex battles. The thing is, I would create a very simple game in FO 1.0 but fully functional. Since it`s open source we can then create mods, expansions, modules and other stuff for the game.

My first aproach of FO would focus on resource model and empireal growth (almos a sim-galaxy) but include simple diplomacy, automatic combat, automatic conquest of planets, very simple tech, etc. THEN we will have a lot more publicity and maybe several groups emerge to work in every aspect of the game. Some people will use the mods for more complex tech, combat, invasion, politics, espionage, even the galaxy map can be structured in other ways (no starlanes for example or even linear, like galciv). THEN every one can choose the level of complexity he wans in every aspect of the game (and I hope you have noticed all the different opinions out there).

[pd]

I would create a very simple game in FO 1.0 but fully functional.

v1.0 will be a complete game, including everything from research over space combat to diplomacy and spionage and so on. it will be far away from 'very simple'.

i get the impression that you want to rush the development, which is not a good idea. quality needs time. be prepared that this project will easily take other 3-5 years until we hold v1.0 in our hands.

oh, and a sim-galaxy-like FO is a bad idea also, actually we are aiming in a complete different direction(see the buildings/specials idea).

we will get more publicity after v0.3 or v0.4. at this point we don't want it at all, we try to avoid it basicly.

[Dreamer]

Nice to know. It's a little difficult sometimes to know how things are just by wiki. And my idea is not to rush development. On the contrary, it`s to diversify development.

If you take a careful look at this kind of game you can separate several almost-independent modules. For example, the galaxy map could have starlanes or not and only traveling fleets should notice (not colonies, diplomacy, combat, etc).

As far as I know every 4x space game in history had great features in some modules and lack in the rest. Eventually this means that some people will be happy and other disapointed (except for Moo3 wich is the only one that disapoints everyone). So since FO is a open-source game why not build a strong core to allow a good interaction of the modules and then allow the player to choose witch plugins to use. Say Predefined ships v/s design: voila, a predefined plugin and a design plugin. Why should the resource model care? Examples of this are easy to find, and what I mention is a little more effort but then you are not creating another 4x game, you can create an All-in-one 4x space game.

A lot like some companies are allowing plugins or mods to create huge versions of all-in-one shooters. But I'm terribly off-topic again. Apparently I missed all the good discussions back in 2003, but I have tried to give something to FO anyway...

[discord]

oi drek, that approach has been mostly done in the game haegemonia - legions of iron(or imperium galactica 3), try it, and see why it does not work.

i am all for custom ships, heck, that is without doubt the single most fun part of ANY 4x game i have ever played, for me that is.

but if i would suggest anything, it would be to make larger fleets POSSIBLE, and at the same time create the choice between quantity and quality, by simply making it a matter of cost/time.

best way of doing it, is some kind of merger between single ship control(early game) and task force level, at later stages, giving the option of either having extremely well trained pilots/crews, in ships that costs a emperors ransom each, or simply churn out thousands of cheap ships, with expendable crews....?

although this would require a 'crew pool' with different settings/qualities for crew....and other things that wont be added....but after all, this is brainstorming.