Religion

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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METhomas
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Religion

#1 Post by METhomas »

I would like to discuss the possibility of adding Religion as a social/cultural matter to be taken into consideration for the game.

The inclusion of religion might be important in calculating happiness (like the Cathedrals in Civ), or unhappiness. The player might be able to choose a 'State Church' and it could make an impact on the course of national development. Further, if you have a state religion, it might have a very negative effect on assimilating a world into your empire/federation. Then again, the results might be positive if your religion and their religion, though different, are compatible. Or you might not have a state religion and total freedom of religion and one of your colonies has theocratic tendencies ... they might want to secede as a result.

Perhaps a state might have several religious factions of its own.

Proposed Game Values for Religion

Religion Name: open field of 'x' # characters, examples Christianity, Islam, Jainism, etc.

Religion Type: Supernatural (belief in gods, demons, spirits, etc.), Natural (holding nature in reverence), Philosophical (one's approach to life, society, etc.)

Supernatural Beliefs (if any): Monotheism (belief in one, all-powerful god), Polytheism (belief in many gods), Deism (belief in one god, but an unknown god that is not involved with the affairs of the mortal realm), Polydeism (beliefs in unknown gods not involved with the affaris of the mortal realm), Animism (belief in spirits)

Scripture, Liturgy, Rites: Closed Canon & Rites, Open Canon & Rites, Informal Scripture & Rites, Oral Tradition

Tolerance (of other religions): Very Tolerant, Tolerant, Intolerant, Very Intolerant

Philosophical Tendency (if non-supernatural): Atheism/Secular Morality, Agnosticism/Secular Morality, Individual Introspection, Social Activity (perhaps more than one here might be chosen)

Thanks again.

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yaromir
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#2 Post by yaromir »

As long as you include secularism and forced conversion I am happy ;)
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Rapunzel
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#3 Post by Rapunzel »

What would be the benefit to the game? Would there be any effect?
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METhomas
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#4 Post by METhomas »

Rapunzel, I think the effect would be obvious if two cultures with totally incompatible religions were to embark upon a diplomatic path toward a shared goal, or if one tried to incorporate the other's worlds through conquest. The native resistance would wreak havoc on the world's economy during the process of assimilation.

Other effects:

Two cultures with compatible religions might be apt to make a military or economic pact with one another against the galaxy's "heathens".

The level of difficulty for a player might be increased greatly as he tries to hold together an empire or federation with multiple religious factions. Colonies might want to break away. The threat of civil war could loom. Certain religious factions might attach themselves to certain political parties. Any of these things could complicate matters for the player.

As for the benefit to the game ... well, personally, I think an added layer of cultural complexity would be nice. Others though might say though: "Let's just keep things simple."

I suppose it really boils down to the path to victory the player wants to follow and his playing style. Some will want to conquer the galaxy. Others will want to win by achieving other feats, one of which might be a cultural feat. Where are the challenges, are they external (dealing with other societies), or internal (building up one's own society), or both?

Pasi
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#5 Post by Pasi »

Me thinks there should be a "slider" or something to set the "faith" for the religion...

as you can't except 100% of the creatures under your controll believe in one thing or atleast not believe in it 100% ... there are those who don't believe, those who do, and those who kill others for not believing :roll:
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yaromir
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#6 Post by yaromir »

Emperor of Fading Suns (EFS)

Not only had religion, but there was an annoying non-player faction called Church (wow!). It was headed by Patriarch and had its own planet (Holy Terra)

Your dealings with the church were a bit different than the other players, plus...

Sometimes the church would deem a particular technology offensive to humanity and forbid it. If you tried to research it anyway, they sent an inquisition team to the lab.

Something worth considering.
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Rob
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#7 Post by Rob »

METhomas wrote:Other effects:

Two cultures with compatible religions might be apt to make a military or economic pact with one another against the galaxy's "heathens".
Do you realy think that races of the same kind of religion under stand each other better?

Look at Planet earth:
Cristians(or Jews)( Monoteism)
Muslim (Monotheism)

Do they live in peace and harmony?

Compare with
Christians( Monoteism)
Hinduism (Polytheism)

Do they hate each other?
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skdiw
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#8 Post by skdiw »

i would just lump religion into government types. maybe instead of some government types, you can chose some religion.

i don't think we have enough variables to do a complementary system, although that would be cool.
:mrgreen:

Rob
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#9 Post by Rob »

"Very Religious" as a special characteristic of a race would be enough.

These religions "belive" they are the only true religion.
They do not accept other religions
=>Diplomatic problems?

Their dogmatic, unchangeable ideologogy also brings problems to scientists
=>research problems?

But there is a huge cohesion within this race.
=>Moral bonus?
=>difficult to assimilate?
=>difficult to infiltrate?
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Impaler
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#10 Post by Impaler »

Sounds like Fundamentalist goverment Choice from SMAC. I think this might make a good "Ethos" option for Factiion beliief systems. The oposing ethos would be "Open-minded" haveing almost the complete oposite effects.
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METhomas
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#11 Post by METhomas »

Rob said: "Do you realy think that races of the same kind of religion under stand each other better?

Look at Planet earth:
Cristians(or Jews)( Monoteism)
Muslim (Monotheism)

Do they live in peace and harmony?

Compare with
Christians( Monoteism)
Hinduism (Polytheism)

Do they hate each other?
"

I understand what you are trying to get at, and that is why I, in that post, said two similar religious factions "might" ally themselves.

Using an example from the modern era, as you do, consider the apparent alliance between American fundamentalist Protestants and Zionist Jews. Both are monotheists, and both have very different beliefs regarding their god, YHVH. The Protestants believe Jesus is YHVH incarnate, Jews do not.

Another example, there are bitter feelings (and even open conflict) between Indian Muslims (monotheism) and Hindus (polytheism). Pakistan exists separate of India largely because of religious strife.

In my opinion, religious motives can be all over the place, and strange alliances may be (and have been) formed. More often than not, realpolitiks figures significantly in such cases.

I tried to address the issue of acceptance/non-acceptance of/by religious groups according to a "tolerance" value.

It's true that the multiple values for each religious faction as I proposed might just mess-up the works by complicating matters. But I'm also of the opinion that having multiple values would allow religious factions to interact in cooperative as well as antagonistic ways.

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yaromir
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#12 Post by yaromir »

It's true that the multiple values for each religious faction as I proposed might just mess-up the works by complicating matters. But I'm also of the opinion that having multiple values would allow religious factions to interact in cooperative as well as antagonistic ways.
EUII had this, and I found it added virtualy nothing to the game-play.
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Triplelk
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#13 Post by Triplelk »

If the development of religion as a game feature proves to difficult to implement I would at least include "Theocracy" as a possible government type.

Not sure if its already been considered, but it would definitely open things up to a whole host of interesting Dune style scenerios. :wink:
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MikkoM
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#14 Post by MikkoM »

I like the idea of creating religions to the alien species as religion usually is an important part of the culture. Also even though science has given us many new ways to see the world the religions here on Earth are not dying.

So here is my suggestion. As this is going to be a very science centered game and as it aims to create a realistic and believable universe I think that the religions should have only a minor role in the game.

The Religions could bring buildings like temples and shrines to the game. These buildings could give some sort of moral bonuses to the planets where they are build as religion would give people the kind of secure feeling that their old traditions and God/Gods are being honored. Religion could also give very minor bonuses to the species in their area of expertise, for example in research, combat, economy etc. Of course this wouldn`t be "the work of the Gods", but would be caused by the general increase of happiness and secure feeling that the God/Gods are protecting us. Also the value of moral bonuses in times of war could be increased as these sorts of crises would naturally get the people to look for comfort.

How religious each species would be could vary between species and there could also be species that have abandoned their old Gods and rely totally to the science, for example species like the Psilons in MOO 2.

Religion could also cause ethnic crises on planets were there are many different religions like we see in the world today. Also by bringing your religion to the occupied planets you could be able to convert them to your religion and so join them more tightly to your empire.

Religion would also enrich the individuality of each species and add one more element to the story as race creators would be able to create the spiritual world of their species along side with the real history and characteristics. Of course it goes without saying that these alien religions should be compatible with the species in question as it would feel very odd if for example war loving species would have peaceful and nonviolent Gods.

I think there should also be an option not to include your species religion to the game and maybe even an option not to include religions to the game at all so the game would be enjoyable also for those how don`t want to be in any contact with religions.

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Krikkitone
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#15 Post by Krikkitone »

Sounds like a good idea... one thought on the Christianity-Islam and Islam-Hindu tensions v. Christian-Islam is probably more due to historic factors... Christians haven't had as much contact with Hindus historically as Muslims have had with both.

However, perhaps this needs to be folded into a greater overall 'sociocultural' side to the game. (normally games like this make the 'sociocultural' fully biological)

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