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diplomacy option - ultimatum or bluff

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 1:19 pm
by Yeeha
Idea is that one player can demand something with threats but may bluff it and another player can use spyes to find out if its bluff.But for this to work there must be some option to say to ally back me up incase of war with this empire.Example:

Player1 threatens that if Player2 wont give him plasma cannon he and player3 attack.But this option is only available if player1 has negotiated with player3.But if Player1 chooses to bluff then he can tell anything he wants like all other empires will help him defeat player2 if player2 wont give technology.
If ultimatum isnt bluff and isnt accepted then threat will become true and automaticly war is being declared.

Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:19 pm
by Impaler
Sounds good, it reminds me a bit of the "frame someone for your spy actions" thing that Moo1 and SMAC had but much more sophisticated.

Having the AI ablie to lie in diplomacy would be a great first start, ofcorse it will be triky to do it right. Typicaly you get something like this.

AI - "I genericaly Threaten you"
AI - "I make specific Demand/s"
You - "I refuse your Demand/s" OR "I submit to your Demand/s"
AI - "I declare war!" OR "I warn you that such insulence will not long be tolerated" OR "I make more demand/s"

Now your saying thier could be a more complexity in the "Threat" itself, rather then always and only threatening war you could threaten things like complex diplomatic actions, trade embargos, spy actions, coalition actions ect ect. Bluffing about a secret aliance would be hard because who ever you have that aliance with might not deside to honor it (war is not automatic)

As for the "Proof" I think it will need a good for of war system, information is normaly fuzzy and ambiguous and empires can do things to "feign strength" or "feign weakness". Your spies bring back "reports" which give you a little snap shot of your enemy that arn't perfectly acurate but are more revealing then normal. Now if you want you can give these reports to other empires kind of like atachments in your Diplomatic E-mails.

So you could tell your alies "I think the Alkari are going to attack me, I want us to premptivly strike, here is the evidence, see their clearly massing their fleets near my boarders."
Attached Reports --

Reports would be race and data type specific (so you only have to show what you want to show). Your spies produce these reports when they succesfully spy on your enemy, BUT they can also make them out of thin air with any result you desire (such as a much weaker or stronger oponent if you wish). Or they could "Sex up" a real spy report.

Other empires can try to validate a report they have recived with their own spies. They can do this is one of 2 ways, by performing a report on the real thing and getting the real result (ofcorse their spies my blunder and acidentily get the same result that your forged) or by detecting some "Flaw" in your report that gives it away without needing to check the real thing. If your spies make the bogus report from a sexed up real report then the accuracy of that original report determines the chances of you having a Flaw in your version (if you dont know what your talking about then you cant fake a good report). Ofcorse theirs always a chance that they get the wrong answer when validating a report, if the validating Empire has weak spies then most of the time they get an "Ambigus" response. A firm Legit/Fake is more likly if they have a better spy network.

Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 3:59 pm
by Yeeha
yes how AI uses diplomacy is very important. Making AI capable betraying, lieing is making it more human and more cunning opponent.I liked in Moo2 how sometimes AI sent forces to your planet and last turn before arriving told we are at war because you are so pathetic.And when i finished my battleships then AI started to want peace using such a pathetic tone. Moo2 diplomacy and events are so funny sometimes that i have managed to get my FPS gamer friends to play it who ordinarly would never consider playing 4x game.