LienRag wrote: ↑Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:24 pm
I found the concept of shipyards needing to be built away from other shipyards very interesting when first reading about it, but now I think it may cause problems: let's suppose that next to my starting planet with a generic specie I get a black hole and a desert planet orbiting around it: in other words, a perfect place for a Mu Ursh military base. Now I won't be able to use it? That's very frustrating imho...
Well then that is where you want to put your shipyard. Now you may need to destroy, another shipyard at a sub-optimal location, but that isn't a bad thing as shipyards already get spammed. Mind you, not every galaxy setup is going to be optimal for every strategy, especially for getting the solar hull.
(by the way, will Species's pilot bonuses be specific to ship lines? It would make sense than Scyllor floating in an Organic Hull's symbiotic fluid would be better at manoeuvering it whild Ugmors could have an intuition of the internal tension of Asteroids structures)
There has been talks before about different hull-lines being tied to the different metabolisms, but I don't think any consensus has emerged as to exactly what that should be or how it would work. Maybe a cost or time reduction in the construction of the appropriate shipyards?
Another case: if I happen to get a hot new Scyllor planet next to my Mu Ursh starting position and want to use it to produce Colony Ships rather than populate outposts (in order to be able to go beyond supply lines) how is it possible with your limitation on shipyards?
I'm not sure I completely understand your question. However if you mean that you want to use the Mu Ursh and it's too close to your Scyllor starting position...
I would say that you could destroy your starting shipyard and build one at the nearby Mu Ursh planet. You could also start a Mu Ursh colony at an outpost far enough away that you can build a new shipyard there.
Now something I have thought about is possibly having high tech planets of species that can build ships have the potential to give you a free shipyard. In that case you could get lucky enough to get a free shipyard with a Mu Ursh planet if they are high-tech natives. Mind you that's not a guarontee, but it is a possibility.
Wouldn't it be better to just make each new shipyard consume more infrastructure (I very much like the idea of building consuming infrastructure, BTW)? Like twice each time? Let's say making sure that the energy-floculated screws designed for your Quantum Ship built at Taarth doesn't get sent to Aldebaran takes its toll...
I'm not sure I get your question here. But I could see the infrastructure consumption being a potentially limiting factor in shipyard construction, more indirectly enforcing specialization.
Or have them lower happiness on the planet? All this neverending noise and hazardous materials everywhere - did you hear that last night a ship's door fell while they were trying to bring it to orbit and the impact destroyed three buildings? They censored the information but my cousin lost his childhood's sweetheart in the accident...
If we did that I would want a way, maybe through policies or species values for that to be optional.
So maybe separating shipline-defining buildings (that will need to be alone on a planet) and parts-defining buildings (that can be built on separate planets of a system and provide for all planets of the system)? Having to own a planet with ferromagnets specials in the same system in order to build the most efficient kinetic gun could be a challenge and provide food for thoughts before choosing this particular weapon line...
I am thinking that parts availability should be defined by supply connection. That way so long as you have the appropriate building in the supply group building you can build a ship with the part. I do like the idea of tying special parts to the metabolism specials, it's been proposed to tie the crystal armor and hulls to the silmaline crystals special. maybe we can think of some more parts to tie to the specials. Personally I would tie advanced mass drivers (railguns?) to the ambient superconductors or monopole magnets special. Maybe tie the spinal antimatter cannon to the positronium ash.
Of course you'll have the Asteroid line that depends on an external planet rather than the ship-building planet but it can be fixed by adding a specific building next to the shipyard in order to build Asteroid Hulls (like a space elevator to bring the asteroid parts to the shipyard efficiently), the Asteroid Processor being tasked with the general purveying of parts to all planets.
Interestingly, in the fluff descriptions it's implied that space elevators should be necessary for the geo-integration facility. I could see it as being a requirement for some of the shipyard buildings. Maybe industrial centers for some of the others?
Is it clear for everyone that all ship hulls will accomodate (nearly) all ship parts that fit in them?
I mean, some exceptions are OK (like how Solarweb is for Organic Hulls and RIS for Robotic Hulls) but it would seriously hamper ship design if it stopped being the exception and started being the rule...
I think I would keep everything that can be used by any hull line usable by any hull line, for now. However I would be open to introducing new
parts that were hull-line restricted.
And how does your proposal fix the spamming drydocks problem?
Personally I would like to see how much they are spammed under the new changes, but as this is a major concern, the appropriate consumption of infrastructure might work. Especially if more buildings are made to consume infrastructure. If that cannot be made to work then limiting them to 1 or maybe 2 per sector might work. I do think you should be able to get more drydocks than shipyards. I do want to keep them them divorced form the shipyard.
About happiness (minimum for operating and building, and maybe happiness reduction) will it be standard for all buildings or depending on the shipline/on the building?
I would have the happiness/stability threshholds be the same for all ships, as I think that's the simplest.
Maybe there too Species traits can have effects? Like Abbadoni not minding working on asteroid assembling (thus requiring less happiness to work) and Mu Urshes having a dislike towards energy hulls (thus requiring more happiness to build them)...
I can definitely see species traits effecting happiness/stability
Are you sure that direct generation of level 2 and 3 monsters is a good idea? How do you plan to have it work?
Yes. It helps make them viable as a ship-line to directly compete as you progress through the game. See further comments for how I plan to have it work.
The current system is flawed by too much randomness (at the beginning of a game it makes a huge difference to have a tamed monster available immediately after establishing an outpost or ten turns later) but I'm not sure how it can be fixed while still making it very different than ship-building.
The spawning of monsters would still be a random event, but there could be techs to make it happen more often. Plus tech to ultimately allow you to place monster nests in appropriate locations. There was an old topic where this was actually scripted-out. I have modded my own games in the past to play with it and it's a really interesting play-through.
If you indulge me getting farther than what I think were reasonable ideas so far, what do you think of combination buildings?
What I mean is instead of having total exclusivity (only one shipyard type can exist that will produce only one shipline), having tuples of antagonism (like A cannot be built with B or C nor D, B cannot be built with A or D nor E, C cannot be built with A or D nor F) but still allowing combinations (like B and C or A and D in the previous examples) which will allow for specific hulls and/or parts? For example you can build robotic and nano-robotic hulls anywhere you have a robotic processing unit, but you'll need an energy compressor to build a logistics facilitator hull.
That will make for a wide variety of choices concerning which hulls to build where...
So this already sort-of happens with the xenocoordination facility as it can be build with either the Orbital Incubator or the Maturation Chamber. I could see only partially splitting the robotic hull-line allowing them to still be built together as they are each the most limited hull-lines with 2 or 3 hull each. However I don't know if it wouldn't be a better discussion to expand the current hull-lines in order to fill those lines out more, maybe with a target minimum 4 or 5 hulls per hull-line.
There are currently unused graphical ship-assets we have available that we could utilize for these new hulls
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