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Grouping & Formations

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2005 11:44 pm
by utilae
I had this idea. Why have taskforces?

In Moo3 a taskforce is like a grouping of ships on the galaxy/empire level. So when you build ships, you put them in taskforces, then move them around the galaxy as taskforces or groups of taskforces.


Why don't we do this a different way? We could group individual ships like in Moo2. So all ships at a system could be sent at once to another planet. OR you could select some of them and make them go to a different planet.

When you enter battle, you can then choose formation groups to apply to your forces. So you have 100 ships entering the battle. You have previously designed 3 group/formation types:
-Formation V (5 ships)
-Formation X (10 ships)
-Formation U (20 ships)


So you say:
-I want 4 "Formation V"
-4 "Formation X"
-2 "Formation U"

Your ships would come into battle in those formations.

If you chose 9 "Formation V" or no formation, then the excess ships not in formation are not grouped, ie individual control. Or maybe they are put in a generic formation group that can be made up of any number of ships.

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:44 am
by skdiw
your "formation" isn't much different from TF. The only difference is able to reform TF before every battle.

BTW, TF is at tactical level too.

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:37 am
by utilae
The difference is you don't build your ships in TFs like Moo3. You build your ships individually like in Moo2. They then become in the same groups as other ships in the system.


TFs are effectively formed before battle, so yeah I am moving TF creation to before battles and making it so you don't choose where to put ships in a TF, but choose the TFs you want in a battle and the ships will fit themselves into the right TF.

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 8:47 pm
by skdiw
you build ships individually in moo3.

Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 9:18 pm
by Dreamer
utilae wrote:TFs are effectively formed before battle, so yeah I am moving TF creation to before battles and making it so you don't choose where to put ships in a TF, but choose the TFs you want in a battle and the ships will fit themselves into the right TF.
Mmm, I think I get your idea. Even if ships are individually built they have to be assigned manually to a fleet or task force (and task forces to fleets??). In Moo1 and 2 fleets are formed and reformed each time you want to send them somewhere. So basically you want to have Moo style and in the event of combat choose from a pool of basic configurations for your ships to group.

I like the idea a lot but whit two comment that are unclear about it: first, I would still have fleets so if I eventually mix 2 groups of ships for one combat I dont have to separate them again manually to move them again. I disliked this aspect of Moo. Second, I would make this adjustment into task forces automatic, given a previous player configuration. So I don't have to select this many of this group, this many otf this other. I would just have a configuration of wich ships go in wich task force type and put a priority on them (even where to put it in respect to others), so the computer generates the starting point of the combat automatically.

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 1:17 am
by ewh02b
Why not go with a Total War type configuration, where you could select half your units (or whatever) before the start of the game, group them, and give them a formation?

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 7:32 am
by Impaler
I do want to be able to build ships in groupings that they will automaticaly form up into once constructed (if this is considered a fleet or a TF dosn't realy matter). This will make ship building much simpler.

Once battle comences we can have some kind of temporary groupings that are used just for that battle, when the battle is over the ships return to their previous 'containers' so I dont have to manualy untangle Alpha Fleet from Beta Fleet.

Oh and I think our 'container system' could go something like this

Armada - a group of ships clickable on the map either at a system or on a starlane, basicaly all ships at a single location are in an Armada. Armadas are composed of Fleets (an armada with 1 fleet is valid). Armadas are created automatical and the player would never create/breakup armadas, armadas are named for their location/destination aka ('Sol Armada', 'Trans Centauri Armada')

Fleet - a grouping used primarily to select which ships will travel to which location. Players create and destroy Fleets at will and move ships between them. Fleets are composed of either ships or Task Forces (depends). Fleets have perminent names assigned at creation.

Task Forces - are the units of battle, comands, tactics and orders are given at the Task Force level durring battle. Taskforce could be created at the start of the battle and disolved at their conclusion. Taskforces might mix ships from different fleets. TF's are composed of ships of Multiple types if desired. Their are no size limites on a TF or other arbitary restrictions.

Ship - a ship is a ship and has a design, possibly an individualy calculated damage level and is always in an armada/fleet when on the galaxy map and always in a TF in battle.

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 8:10 am
by utilae
Sounds good.

Only Armada's should not have names, since there is ever only one armada at a system. I guess your thinking "what if I send an armada to a system that has an armada?". "Do they merge?" Probably. Yes, I think they should.

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:50 pm
by ewh02b
yes, why have the three distinctions? I guess your desire to have an "armada" is because you don't want to select 30 different fleets in order to move them one system away.

simpler solution: "select all" button at the system level, that lets you select all fleets in-system and send them elsewhere.

and again, why have task forces? If a fleet jumps into a system and engages in battle, the player is hardly going to leave some ships out of the battle. therefore, fleet=task force. or, if there are more than one fleet jumping in, fleets=task force.

simpler solution: all ships in a system shall be involved in battle at that system. all fleets in a system shall be involved in battle at that system. If you want to call that an "armada", then fine.

I think that having the following groupings should be sufficient:
armada=multiple fleets
fleet=multiple ships
ship=one ship (perhaps with detachment of fighters)

This way, Empire A's fleet could find itself in battle against Empire B's armada, with Empire C's scout ship hanging out as an observer.

From your original post, it seems you want to elect to keep some ships out of battle. Was that the idea of this, that TF=Armada-Ships_kept_out_of_battle ?

Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:43 pm
by marhawkman
hhMM... So peoples want to do fleets like in Stars!, huh? Cool! :D

Honestly of all the game I've played I liked the fleet handling in Stars! best. You could reassign fleets at will, and there was no penalty for splitting your fleet. And managing fleets was easy as they appeared as a single item in the listing of stuff in system.

MoO2 was okay, but needing to sort out ships before every move was annoying.

SE3 and SE4 barely even have fleets at all. in those games it's nothing but a short way to give a group of ships the same orders.

I don't quite remember how it worked in BotF...

MoO3 had a craptasic "taskforce" system. not only did it not allow you to upgrade ships, but it made it so fleets could only be created from ships in reserve. and only in certain system as well. And of course the only way for a ship to get out of a task force was to be destroyed or for the taskforce to disband, which resulted in the ships disappearing until they became even more obsolete than they already were. BARF!!!

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 2:23 am
by Krikkitone
Well I'd arrange it

Fleets=Multiple ships in the same location with the same general orders (this determines how individual ships behave in battle)... (Join Fleet is a potential Fleet Order.. which means this fleet will move to the given Fleet and join to it, taking whatever order that fleet has.)

Ships can be move between fleets, merged, etc.

Ships=..Ships always part of a Fleet, even if a Fleet of 1.

Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 10:09 am
by marhawkman
hmm you like the idea of having the ships in a fleet visible individually when selecting fleets in system? I prefer making it so you have to click to view the contents of the fleet.

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:33 pm
by ewh02b
marhawkman wrote:hmm you like the idea of having the ships in a fleet visible individually when selecting fleets in system? I prefer making it so you have to click to view the contents of the fleet.
We could just do an expandable list, like windows explorer. that way people can either give orders to a fleet (by clicking on it and right-clicking on the next system or whatever) or automatically create a new fleet by selecting a single ship and ordering it to a system that the rest of the fleet isn't going to.

+fleet 1
+fleet 2
-fleet 3
--ship 1
--ship 2
--ship 3
+fleet 4

Formations

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:43 am
by flameoriginal
Have any decisions been made about the use of formations in the game?

It would be good to have a brief update on where the land currently lies.

Re: Formations

Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:01 pm
by Geoff the Medio
flameoriginal wrote:Have any decisions been made about the use of formations in the game?
No.