Diplomacy in Singleplayer and Multiplayer

[utilae]

In Moo2 you would get a diplomacy bonus if you chose "charismatic", however this race pick was useless in multiplayer as it does not affect human players at all.


So the reason for this threads existance is to discuss how to make a bonus for diplomacy that is useful in singleplayer and multiplayer.


My idea is the following:

"Isolationist" (-50% diplomacy)
=No Communications allowed. Diplomacy screen inaccessable.

"Repulsive" (-50% diplomacy)
=1 Communication allowed every 50 turns. If the communication is highly offensive or leads to war, then that communication is free.

"Normal" (+0% diplomacy)
=25 Communications allowed every 50 turns.

"Charismatic" (+50% diplomacy)
=Unlimited Communications allowed.

[Magus]

The obvious way to do bonuses is to take the MoO 3 Cassius Belli system. This describes how your population feels about the stellar nation in question. Charimatic/repulsive can affect that.
If a leader goes against the will of his people in these kind of matters (or any matters...), unrest could spread. Starting a war with a race who you are in harmony with would probably split your empire in half from the revolts.

[utilae]

The obvious way to do bonuses is to take the MoO 3 Cassius Belli system. This describes how your population feels about the stellar nation in question. Charimatic/repulsive can affect that.

This would only work in singleplayer as human players are not affected by Cassius Belli.

If a leader goes against the will of his people in these kind of matters (or any matters...), unrest could spread. Starting a war with a race who you are in harmony with would probably split your empire in half from the revolts.

How does this relate to repulsive/charismatic when dealing with human players. If one human player had a repulsive race pick, then what would make the other human players see the repulsive player as repulsive. My idea of limiting communications to only offensive ones would do that.

[skdiw]

The obvious way to do bonuses is to take the MoO 3 Cassius Belli system. This describes how your population feels about the stellar nation in question. Charimatic/repulsive can affect that.

This would only work in singleplayer as human players are not affected by Cassius Belli.

If a leader goes against the will of his people in these kind of matters (or any matters...), unrest could spread. Starting a war with a race who you are in harmony with would probably split your empire in half from the revolts.

How does this relate to repulsive/charismatic when dealing with human players. If one human player had a repulsive race pick, then what would make the other human players see the repulsive player as repulsive. My idea of limiting communications to only offensive ones would do that.

lol.

I think Magus meant that say another human empire has replusive pick, your empire will go into unrest if you deal with that human empire. Conversely, if the other human empire has charasmatic pick, your empire 's morale would increase, and thereby increase your incentive to deal with that human empire.

There are numerous way to make charasmtic and other diplomatic modifier work in human multiplayer games. Depending on your government style, say you have democracy where each bill needs senate or popular vote to pass a bill, if you have charisma, you will be more likely to pass that bill. Let's say the bill was to declare war on a repulsive empire, the bill is more likely to pass than if the empire has chrisma. Cassius Belli is something that human can't control and diplomacy can affect that to affect the human player.

Another way is changing what options you can do in diplomacy depending on cassius belli. If you have very good relationships, you can form alliances, bonus trade and research treaties, and other benifits. If your relationship is less good, then the benefits goes down and your options are limited.

[Geoff the Medio]

The views of your population towards other empires or races, particularly localized variations thereof, as well as the consequences of those views and ways to manipulate or exploit those views defensively or offensively is one of the goals or features of "factions" ideas in various incarnations that have been proposed...

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[utilae]

I think Magus meant that say another human empire has replusive pick, your empire will go into unrest if you deal with that human empire. Conversely, if the other human empire has charasmatic pick, your empire 's morale would increase, and thereby increase your incentive to deal with that human empire.

There are numerous way to make charasmtic and other diplomatic modifier work in human multiplayer games. Depending on your government style, say you have democracy where each bill needs senate or popular vote to pass a bill, if you have charisma, you will be more likely to pass that bill. Let's say the bill was to declare war on a repulsive empire, the bill is more likely to pass than if the empire has chrisma. Cassius Belli is something that human can't control and diplomacy can affect that to affect the human player.

Ok, that makes sense now. Low morale leads to rebelions leads to civil war (the faction idea).

Another way is changing what options you can do in diplomacy depending on cassius belli. If you have very good relationships, you can form alliances, bonus trade and research treaties, and other benifits. If your relationship is less good, then the benefits goes down and your options are limited.

Yep, I had similar ideas.

@Geoff the Medio
I like the faction ideas. Basically my view on it is that a break away or rebelious faction would be treated as another AI player which you could do diplomacy with, spy on, etc. But I think the diplomacy would have some unique things like "reunite with reblious faction, while meeting ___ demands". Maybe the faction will keep an eye on how your government/you rule(s) and if your empires morale gets high enough, the faction will rejoin.

[snakechia]

I did not like in Moo3 how one race ALWAYS hated another race. It limits the game variations in my view. There is always a fish/lizard war, or a human/mechanical war. I would not mind if a cassus belli were to be randomized at the beginning of each game, but each game should be different, in my opinion.

[Yoghurt]

So the reason for this threads existance is to discuss how to make a bonus for diplomacy that is useful in singleplayer and multiplayer.

Limiting communication in multiplayer just doesn't work.

First, I want to chat with my fellow players; you want to have fun, after all.
Second, and this is the main point, even if communication would be blocked, you could always cheat and communicate via IM.

[skdiw]

I did not like in Moo3 how one race ALWAYS hated another race. It limits the game variations in my view. There is always a fish/lizard war, or a human/mechanical war. I would not mind if a cassus belli were to be randomized at the beginning of each game, but each game should be different, in my opinion.

The game is played as such. Actually, the inital cassus belli modifier is quite small--you can check the files and mod it to neutral... it makes it boring game imo.

[utilae]

I hate Cassius Belli, because its not like any of these races will have met each other and because of that there can be no pre existing relationships. If we are gonna say that race A hates race B cause race B is a fish, then why don't we do it for their skin color and for the appearance of their ships and for the quality of their toilets. Probably the first thing you will see when meeting an alien race is their ships. You may never see what the alien race looks like ever, in the case where they wear a mask and body suit, etc.

[skdiw]

I hate Cassius Belli, because its not like any of these races will have met each other and because of that there can be no pre existing relationships. If we are gonna say that race A hates race B cause race B is a fish, then why don't we do it for their skin color and for the appearance of their ships and for the quality of their toilets. Probably the first thing you will see when meeting an alien race is their ships. You may never see what the alien race looks like ever, in the case where they wear a mask and body suit, etc.

yea, it's kinda arbitray on how initial modifiers are. But I remember moo3 developers saying something balance. It was long time ago, so I don't remember exactly... I remember it's quite complex, like everything in moo3...something like race A has some advantages and likely to colonize certain planets that's compatible with another race so they naturally dislike each other... something very complicated.

So naturally, you are going to hate a race if they want to take your planets whether it's hard-coded or not, so initial modifier cassus belli helps balance the races diplomatically.