Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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labgnome
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Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#1 Post by labgnome »

So I recently had an idea about how to handle what planets you loose when you are not able to afford the influence upkeep. Basically this would initiate a downward spiral for your planets, where they would all loose happiness. Once happiness reaches 0, the planet would have a chance of generating rebels. This chance would be affected by species traits.
  • Obedient: 0% chance of producing rebels each turn of 0 happiness, probably only Exobots
  • Docile: 25% chance of producing rebels for each turn of 0 happiness
  • Default/No Trait: 50% chance of producing rebels for each turn of 0 happiness
  • Unruly: 75% chance of producing rebels for each turn of 0 happiness
  • Rebellious: 100% chance of producing rebels for each turn of 0 happiness
Rebels will be generated based on defensive troop strength, at a minimum of 1 each successful roll, until they equal to, or greater than, the troops on the planet. With bad defensive troop species generating 1 additional unit of rebels, average defensive troop species generating 2 additional units of rebels, good defensive troop species generating 3 additional units of rebels, and great defensive troop species generating 4 additional units of rebels. At that point, the planet goes into full rebellion and becomes independent and any "destroyed on conquest buildings" are destroyed by the rebels. I believe that this approach solves several potential issues: such as the possibility of planets immediately being lost one you incur an influence deficit, possibly losing all your colonies at once, and the possibility of loosing an entire species at once. This idea could probably be tweaked and feedback would be appreciated.
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Oberlus
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Re: Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#2 Post by Oberlus »

Would be good if you link older discussions on rebellion mechanics, for comparison.

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labgnome
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Re: Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#3 Post by labgnome »

Oberlus wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:19 am Would be good if you link older discussions on rebellion mechanics, for comparison.
While the subject of rebellions has come up a lot in the past, this one, from before my time, is the only dedicated topic I could find. I personally don't feel like linking every topic that's ever brought up rebellions as I think it would be overwhelming and thus ultimately unhelpful. If you can think of a particularly relevant one please drop the link yourself.
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Ophiuchus
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Re: Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#4 Post by Ophiuchus »

things to be specced
  • what are the game purposes of rebellion? giving an incentive for keeping influence positive. What else? (or is this the only relevant purpose)
  • on which level should rebellion happen/how does it develop? - whole empire, clusters of planets, gradual expanding rebellions, single planets
  • what are the options to stop such a rebellion?
  • what does full rebellion mean? joining another empire? becoming independent?
  • what does being independent mean (also a question for conceding)?
  • how does rebellion interact with troops?
  • what happens with the meters after such rebellion?
  • are there downsides before actual rebellion?
  • how does one recover from rebellion and what are the total costs?
Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:17 pm for each point of influence deficit remove one point of stability somewhere in the empire. Defense focus gives a boost to stability. If stability is zero or lower the planet automatically switches to defense focus and a sitrep is produced. If stability is low if defense focus is set, a small amount of rebels gets created on the planet each turn. If the number of troops drops below the number of rebels (or the number of rebels grows higher than the number of troops) the planet goes independent. Rebels do not vanish on their own so these might be accumulating even if the planet gets stabilized inbetween. Succesful invasion does not reduce the number of rebels. But one could kill just some of the troops and let the natives have their way with their oppressors.

The randomness solves the question which planets get destabilized - combined with the gradual process and the auto-save (defense focus) this makes it fair in a sense. Having a planet occupied with defense reduces resource-generation. Maybe one way to get rid of rebels is to let the planet go independent and reinvade. But you still need to wait for the rebels to take over before - so this would be very costly. Maybe it would help to evade some of the poor population from that instable planet so those can live a life without fear (and to reduce the number of troops).
concerning the OP - i do not like the species rebellion trait idea too much - i think this could be hard to balance, it is having rebellious population is a downside which only applies if you dont care about your influence points. Also having the option of not caring at all about IP (e.g. exobot-only empire) seems not too interesting.
On the other hand i like the idea that a positive trait is turned into a bad one (great troops -> rebellion is more likely) - although for fluff sake i would rather prefer the attack troop trait. How do you imagine that independent planets would work with your idea?
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Krikkitone
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Re: Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#5 Post by Krikkitone »

Another purpose of rebellion would be a "nonmilitary" way to attack another empire Using influence. (as well as a reason to pay attention to anything else that affects stability/happiness.)

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Oberlus
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Re: Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#6 Post by Oberlus »

labgnome wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:48 am
Oberlus wrote: Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:19 am Would be good if you link older discussions on rebellion mechanics, for comparison.
While the subject of rebellions has come up a lot in the past, this one, from before my time, is the only dedicated topic I could find. I personally don't feel like linking every topic that's ever brought up rebellions as I think it would be overwhelming and thus ultimately unhelpful. If you can think of a particularly relevant one please drop the link yourself.
Regardless if the threads were dedicated to rebellion or dealed with more subjects, it's interesting to keep track of previous ideas and not reinvent the wheel.

With proposals for rebellion management/abstraction:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=11316&hilit=rebel
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11363&hilit=rebel
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11320&hilit=rebel
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11275&hilit=rebel

Not focused on rebels but with proposals about rebellion and influence maintenance:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=11258&hilit=rebel
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9998&hilit=rebel

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labgnome
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Re: Unhappiness, Rebellion and Species

#7 Post by labgnome »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:22 pm things to be specced
  • what are the game purposes of rebellion? giving an incentive for keeping influence positive. What else? (or is this the only relevant purpose)
For now. Once influence projects are a thing, rebellions can be instigated by hostile parties.
  • on which level should rebellion happen/how does it develop? - whole empire, clusters of planets, gradual expanding rebellions, single planets
Rebellions would start on multiple, individual planets. However I can see rebellion spreading being an interesting mechanic. Perhaps once a planet has generated a rebel the chance of all supply connected planets in the same empire within 1 jump has an additional 10% chance of generating another rebel on the next turn.
  • what are the options to stop such a rebellion?
For now, getting your influence back into the positive/out of a deficit. Once influence projects are a thing rebellions can be put down through influence projects.
  • what does full rebellion mean? joining another empire? becoming independent?
For now, becoming independent. Once something like "opinion" is introduced, a rebelling planet may join another empire if there is high enough opinion.
  • what does being independent mean (also a question for conceding)?
For now, that all "destroyed on conquest" buildings should be destroyed and the planet returns to being unclaimed and on the net turn all rebels turn into troops.
  • how does rebellion interact with troops?
Rebels should simply remove all troops once they reach up to the number of troops or greater. The following turn the planet should become independent. The next turn the rebels should become defensive troops for the independent planet. For the turn the planet is independent with rebels, it cannot be reconquered.
  • what happens with the meters after such rebellion?
All foci and meters should go to default values at normal rates.
  • are there downsides before actual rebellion?
Any effects from low stability.
  • how does one recover from rebellion and what are the total costs?
For now, you can just re-conquer rebellious planets. Once opinion is a thing, successful rebellions might seriously impact your relationship with the rebelling species, and once influence projects are a thing you can attempt to sway the back into your empire one you get excess influence.
Ophiuchus wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:17 pm for each point of influence deficit remove one point of stability somewhere in the empire. Defense focus gives a boost to stability. If stability is zero or lower the planet automatically switches to defense focus and a sitrep is produced. If stability is low if defense focus is set, a small amount of rebels gets created on the planet each turn. If the number of troops drops below the number of rebels (or the number of rebels grows higher than the number of troops) the planet goes independent. Rebels do not vanish on their own so these might be accumulating even if the planet gets stabilized inbetween. Succesful invasion does not reduce the number of rebels. But one could kill just some of the troops and let the natives have their way with their oppressors.
So for that I was thinking is that for each point of deficit you would lower stability across your empire, but once stability reaches 0, then rebels will be generated randomly according to some probability. This way rebellions will hit "just as hard" for large empires as they will for small empires.
concerning the OP - i do not like the species rebellion trait idea too much - i think this could be hard to balance, it is having rebellious population is a downside which only applies if you dont care about your influence points.
Honestly I think that makes it easier to balance, as most players should care about their influence. I'd only give one or two native species the rebellious trait, and have most species be at the default value, with a fair amount of docile and unruly species.
Also having the option of not caring at all about IP (e.g. exobot-only empire) seems not too interesting.
Exobots are bad or very bad at everything, so unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot otherwise, that's probably not a serious concern.
On the other hand i like the idea that a positive trait is turned into a bad one (great troops -> rebellion is more likely) - although for fluff sake i would rather prefer the attack troop trait. How do you imagine that independent planets would work with your idea?
Most native species just have defensive troop bonuses, so it makes more sense to tie it to defensive troops. Plus you can always argue that rebels are "defensive".
All of my contributions should be considered released under creative commons attribution share-alike license, CC-BY-SA 3.0 for use in, by and with the Free Orion project.

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