what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

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wobbly
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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#16 Post by wobbly »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:00 pm
wobbly wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:13 am Personally not a fan of seeing a lot of specials on asteroids and GGs, though not necessarily adverse to them having special or any particular special. Maybe ok with just a lower probability.
could you please formulate why you dont like them there?
To some degree GGs and asteroids are already specials through how they interact with other planets in the system. GG-gens, asteroid shipyards, micrograv etc. etc. I also to some degree like plain planets rather then a lot of noise. Like I said, I'm not necessarily against them having specials though if they are getting specials it'd be nicer to have them themed to GGs rather then being just another planet.

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stpa
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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#17 Post by stpa »

sounds reasonable, and i was thinking about at least one GG special, the magnetic lock since tidal lock evidently does not work with fluid bodies. those other specials where i'd like to allow them on roids and gg's resp., are more of the general sort like with the moons of computronium and resonant moons should be understandable.

and about the habitable moon thing mentioned earlier with the other species, i could think of a very simple way the current engine could support moons, just make them planets in the same system, limit size to tiny, give names so they can be seen as moons. not that i'm actively advocating for that, just saying could be a simple way to fake the moons. give them a MOON tag and exclude some specials spawning when MOON tag is present, like resonant and computroniumoon.

edit; and no reason not to have lagrangian asteroids on GGs as well in the same manner (while i'm at it not advocating for it ...)
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LienRag
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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#18 Post by LienRag »

stpa wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:33 pm sounds reasonable, and i was thinking about at least one GG special, the magnetic lock since tidal lock evidently does not work with fluid bodies. t
Nice idea.
Better find something original and thematic for them, if you can. I have no idea on that point myself.
Raise number of fighters launched in the system for all allies of the owner of the planet ?
Maybe also Arc Disruptor number of shots ?

stpa wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 5:33 pm
and about the habitable moon thing mentioned earlier with the other species, i could think of a very simple way the current engine could support moons, just make them planets in the same system, limit size to tiny, give names so they can be seen as moons.
It's an early design decision to not have habitable moons.

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#19 Post by wobbly »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 4:12 pm
stpa wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 9:04 am i'd remove GG-restriction from: PLANET_DRIVE, COMPUTRONIUM, FORTRESS, RESONANT_MOON, TEMPO_ANIMoLY
and i'd remove roids-restriction from: TEMPANO, SCRYING, ANCIENT_RUINS, MINERALS

is that okay?
planet drive on GG, ok I guess. fluff-wise they could be too heavy/big to be moved.

fortress on GG, not ok. is not fitting the gas giant theme (which is: there-should-be-no-species).

the other three are okayish.

the asteroid belts have a description "problem" (or complexity). Usually the specials are about planets which sounds strange if the description calls an asteroid belt "planet".

for asteroids the scrying sphere and ancient ruins feels okayish. not sure if e.g. exobots are able to use the anomaly effectively.

what do you mean by minerals?
Minerals is the file name for ferric minerals (a lithic growth special)

Stpa seems to have vanished. I'd be fine with this list (including Ophi's amendments) with a probability check of 0.3 added, to stop them becoming too common. GGs are more common then other planets and a limited list of specials makes the special seem more common. Anyway the basic idea might be worth it to make play for Sly more interesting.

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#20 Post by wobbly »

I have a draft version, which I haven't tested, but is there if anyone feels like trying it out and seeing how it plays. Unsure myself.

https://github.com/freeorion/freeorion/pull/3992

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#21 Post by wobbly »

Tested this. At least in the sense that I fixed a bunch of parser errors and looked through the object list in supertester mode. The first thing I noticed is that the "moon" specials on Gas Giants look like they absolutely belong there. If nothing else goes in I think GGs deserve moons.

Regarding some specials refering to "planets", simaline crystals description refers to planet's surface even though it appears on asteroids already and I'm yet to see anyone bat an eye on that one. However the quick and dirty fix is to change "planet" to "celestial body".

Oh and the panopticon complex looks kind of cool buried in a gas giant, at least to me.

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LienRag
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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#22 Post by LienRag »

wobbly wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:54 pm If nothing else goes in I think GGs deserve moons.
Interesting...
(no, I'm trolling, I entirely approve your position)

wobbly wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:54 pm Regarding some specials refering to "planets", simaline crystals description refers to planet's surface even though it appears on asteroids already and I'm yet to see anyone bat an eye on that one.
Silmaline crystals, at least to me, are intuitively understandable as growing on asteroids (and as such being present on Asteroid Belts).
I don't think they could happen on a Gas Giant though, but my astronomy/planetology is rudimentary.

wobbly wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:54 pm Oh and the panopticon complex looks kind of cool buried in a gas giant, at least to me.
Might be nice indeed.
And since it's one per Galaxy it won't be on every GG.
A Galaxy with Panopticon Complex on a GG will be quite biased in favor of Sly, though.


Maybe a variant of the Tree of Life could be created for Gas Giants ? Some rhizome stretching from the depth of the planet to its outer clouds ?

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#23 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote:
wobbly wrote: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:54 pm Oh and the panopticon complex looks kind of cool buried in a gas giant, at least to me.
Might be nice indeed.
And since it's one per Galaxy it won't be on every GG.
A Galaxy with Panopticon Complex on a GG will be quite biased in favor of Sly, though.
Not at home to check but I suspect outposts still work here.

What I think I'll do is:

Leave asteroids alone
Allow moons, ecentric orbit, panopticon, philospher planet and player built scrying sphere on GGs
Scale by GGs ratio. A quick look in universe gen suggest specials are picked then spread onto legal locations. I don't want numerous GGs stealing too many specials.

And then if others have good ideas for GG or asteroid specific specials they can add them later.

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#24 Post by LienRag »

wobbly wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:38 am Allow [... ]philospher planet [...] on GGs
It's been a while that I've read the code, but IIRC the Philosopher Planet script transforms the planet, whatever it is at first, into a tiny radiated planet.
So no point in allowing it on GG, except if you want to change the code to allow Cloud Philosophers...


wobbly wrote: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am A quick look in universe gen suggest specials are picked then spread onto legal locations.
No, at least not the last time I looked at it.
The script randomizes at each location whether there will be a Special or many, then picks one amongst those available (iteratively if there's more than one, IIRC).

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#25 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:00 am
wobbly wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 8:38 am Allow [... ]philospher planet [...] on GGs
It's been a while that I've read the code, but IIRC the Philosopher Planet script transforms the planet, whatever it is at first, into a tiny radiated planet.
So no point in allowing it on GG, except if you want to change the code to allow Cloud Philosophers...
It only places it on tiny planets, then transforms it to radiated. Ok, well that's easy. I'll just leave it out.
LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 9:00 am
wobbly wrote: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am A quick look in universe gen suggest specials are picked then spread onto legal locations.
No, at least not the last time I looked at it.
The script randomizes at each location whether there will be a Special or many, then picks one amongst those available (iteratively if there's more than one, IIRC).
Hmm, you are probably right. I struggle a little to read python. I'm not certain whether its grabbing a set of systems or just counting the systems at 1 point. Well if it works the way you say it might be simpler or maybe not. It's likely I still need a probability in there to stop Sly getting a ton of computronium moons.

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#26 Post by LienRag »

wobbly wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:23 pm It's likely I still need a probability in there to stop Sly getting a ton of computronium moons.
Yes, that's the big challenge.
Not sure if the probability is differenciable per planet-type, though.

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Re: what about Tidally Locked Rotation & Eccentric Orbit for roids and GGs?

#27 Post by wobbly »

LienRag wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 6:15 pm
wobbly wrote: Thu Aug 04, 2022 4:23 pm It's likely I still need a probability in there to stop Sly getting a ton of computronium moons.
Yes, that's the big challenge.
Not sure if the probability is differenciable per planet-type, though.
Stpa added a hack for natives on GGs and asteroids. I can probably just adapt it for specials.

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