Timed games - automatic end turn

[Daybreak]

In the 5 min test games I have noticed that -

a) If you dont end your turn the game may not recognise things you have placed in the queue, both ships, buildings and tech will disappear for new items placed within a certain time frame of the timed end turn. Not sure what that time is. It is also much worse if you place items at the beginning of a queue so all the items shift down.

b) However if you press the end turn even within 10 seconds of the timed end turn , it does not matter how many items you have placed in the queue or moved around, thye will remain and not disappear.

I would like to see an automatic placed end turn for every empire, as if they pressed the button themselves, at the end of a timed end turn, so all their changes are recognised and do not disappear.

That would mean all servers when/wherever initiated would have the same software and players would not become frustrated as they forget the time, doing whatever they are doing.

Hope that makes sense.

[LienRag]

Yeah.
That would probably mean that turns are not exactly 5 minutes long, since the server processing time would have to be after the 5 mn are finished.
But it's way better imho than not knowing when you have to stop giving orders.
That can be particularly catastrophic when sending fleets to a battle, if the orders to send the first ones are validated but not the order to send the others, you're badly screwed.

[Oberlus]

IMO, the 5-minutes-turn games are not games, just playtesting that there is no problems with recent changes in server and clients. It would be a PITA if a problem arises when we are one or two weeks into the game (turn 20 or 30) and the whole game must be discarded.

Real games have either a long time to play (slow games, for players to connect at their own convenience) or no deadline (for players that connect together during sessions).
In both cases, the problems described in the OP are non-existent.

[Daybreak]

in most cases, but going forward...some will want fast games, and even when testing it is still relevant.

It was Thinksome who said he played a 3 minute time limit with friends on a server he set up.

[Daybreak]

IMO, the 5-minutes-turn games are not games, just playtesting that there is no problems with recent changes in server and clients. It would be a PITA if a problem arises when we are one or two weeks into the game (turn 20 or 30) and the whole game must be discarded.

Real games have either a long time to play (slow games, for players to connect at their own convenience) or no deadline (for players that connect together during sessions).
In both cases, the problems described in the OP are non-existent.

Apologies I missed your meaning

I don't mean it replaces what we already have
for short timed games - turn the auto end on
for larger times games - turn auto end off

[Oberlus]

What I mean is that it makes no sense to worry about this issues you commented in the OP, lost orders when issued too close to the deadline, because they won't affect any player in any real game:

In normal timed games (slow games) you will veeeeeeery seldom find yourself at the situation in which you have half a minute to play your turn before time expires, because turns have a 24h+ span.
In non-timed games you will never find this situation.

And because of that, it makes no sense to complicate client-server communication to solve a no-problem and maybe create some others.

Short-timed games are not a thing. Games in which you need to we awake 24/7 and issuing orders every five minutes are not feasible nor fun to play.
You might be connecting to this test games now with some interest, but that is temporal, at some point you just connect to see everything is find then wait for the actual slow-timed game. If you really want to playtest stuff during the test game, you might be better off doing it in SP, because you can then turn at your own convenience (one turn every 5 minutes is damn slow).

FYI, but o01eg might correct myself, originally the game did not allow timed games, a turn would only advance when all players pressed "turn" (so lost issued orders were just impossible). Usually one player creates a game in their local machine and allows others to connect for a given gaming session. When one of the players has to go, the game is saved, the server is stopped and game will continue another day.
To enable asynchronous games in dedicated servers, o01eg introduced the timed mode, so that when a player gets missing and can't be contacted, game is not stalled forever. Initially, server only knew of orders after player had pressed turn, otherwise all orders were lost on turn processing. o01eg introduced some changes so that the client periodically communicates with the server to tell issued orders even if the player didn't press turn. That system is more or less what you are asking here. However it doesn't work that fast as to avoid lossing orders issued 20 seconds before turn end. That can probably be done, enable client-server communication non-stop, updating orders every second or so, but that is extra Internet and CPU overhead just to fix a no-problem.

[Ophiuchus]

That can probably be done, enable client-server communication non-stop, updating orders every second or so, but that is extra Internet and CPU overhead just to fix a no-problem.

the client could automatically switch to that mode (send each order ) in e.g. the last 10 seconds.

from my experiences with network troubles (when visiting my parents) i would also love to get feedback that orders did (or did not) get through. e.g. a warning which orders were not excepted (e.g. because they arrived to late) or the connection breaks.

or a way to manually make sure that orders are send which does not indicate that you finished your turn

[Oberlus]

the client could automatically switch to that mode (send each order ) in e.g. the last 10 seconds.

Maybe. But then the client needs to be sure how many seconds are left. I don't think that is done right now, I remember many times the client was telling me 20 seconds left but the server began processing turn before that.

get feedback that orders did (or did not) get through. e.g. a warning which orders were not excepted (e.g. because they arrived to late) or the connection breaks.

That would be nice to have indeed: a system to let client know for each order if it's been recorded in the server, and a message when the player attempts to disconnect without the orders being issued. But I think we already have that implemented.

a way to manually make sure that orders are send which does not indicate that you finished your turn

Only when you are not the last one to play: press turn then press it again.
A second button for "synchronize" or something like that could be useful.

[LienRag]

In normal timed games (slow games)

The fact that we agreed to play slow games doesn't make them more normal than quick ones...
It's true that the problem is non-urgent for us as, again, we do play slow games, but that's not an obligation for other people - it's very reasonable to expect a fixed-duration game with 5 to 15 minutes per player (with pauses obviously, as the game won't be finished in an afternoon).

[Oberlus]

Your out of context quote sounds bad. But check this out:

Short-timed games are not a thing. Games in which you need to we awake 24/7 and issuing orders every five minutes are not feasible nor fun to play.

Now try to explain why would you like to play seriously a game with a 5 minutes turn.

it's very reasonable to expect a fixed-duration game with 5 to 15 minutes per player (with pauses obviously, as the game won't be finished in an afternoon).

No, it isn't. If players are all online, they will press turn when they can. If you do want to force turns keep going during the gaming session but with players that for some reason can't play their turns, that's the moment when you save the game and stop playing, so no need for a timer. If all players are online and playing the game faster than the 5 minutes, then there is no need for a timer.
In fast games, there is no need for a timer.

[Ophiuchus]

In fast games, there is no need for a timer.

depends on the crew i guess, sometimes people wish the others would press the button sooner; one can enforce that with a timer

[Oberlus]

In fast games, there is no need for a timer.

depends on the crew i guess, sometimes people wish the others would press the button sooner; one can enforce that with a timer

My experience is that's the same as telling them "don't play with me".
And then, once the slow-turners are out of the game, there is no need for a timer...

[Daybreak]

the client could automatically switch to that mode (send each order ) in e.g. the last 10 seconds.

from my experiences with network troubles (when visiting my parents) i would also love to get feedback that orders did (or did not) get through. e.g. a warning which orders were not excepted (e.g. because they arrived to late) or the connection breaks.

or a way to manually make sure that orders are send which does not indicate that you finished your turn

+1 from me

If there is a feeling that this would impact the server, maybe each client could have a randomised time to send between 10 seconds and 30 seconds.

Short-timed games are not a thing. Games in which you need to we awake 24/7 and issuing orders every five minutes are not feasible nor fun to play.

Now try to explain why would you like to play seriously a game with a 5 minutes turn.

Actually there are major games out there - Astro Empires and Planetarium, that have 24 hour "Turns" and then fast servers where there are Hourly Turns, and they have thousands of people playing around the world. Quite a few have seepless nights when major things are happening.

I would easily get together with friends for a 5 minute turns game, during the day, and either saving the game for resuming later or no logins during the night to allow sleep, and serious gamers would do that as well.

Thinksome already proved that people will do it with his 3 minute game search.php?keywords=3+minutes&terms=all ... mit=Search

[o01eg]

If there is a feeling that this would impact the server, maybe each client could have a randomised time to send between 10 seconds and 30 seconds.

It isn't random. It sends orders when client switching windows like when you open or close production window, research windows or some other.

[Daybreak]

If there is a feeling that this would impact the server, maybe each client could have a randomised time to send between 10 seconds and 30 seconds.

It isn't random. It sends orders when client switching windows like when you open or close production window, research windows or some other.

ahh ok, good to know. Then it would not impact server, if at 10 secs the client sent any unsent orders, irrespective of them changing windows or pressing the ready button.