Detection Range and Strength

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Daybreak
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Detection Range and Strength

#1 Post by Daybreak »

Should ships and Planets also show strength and not just Range

Icon for Strength - although background needs to be Transparent

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Oberlus
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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#2 Post by Oberlus »

Strength is the empire's detection strength. Monsters have range = strength.

Daybreak
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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#3 Post by Daybreak »

Yes but confusing by using same icon - I was probably making it too complicated. Maybe just the icon for empire strength needs to be changed.

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#4 Post by Daybreak »

Changed my mind - a separate icon/field for Detection strength should be displayed on all ships, planets and especially Monsters.

At the moment it is very confusing, and monsters do not have a detection strength, only detection range.

Plus it leaves ti open for us to have different detection strengths based on pilots, and species that colonised a planet, for future enhancements if we wanted.

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#5 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:54 am At the moment it is very confusing
Hopefully not after you read the answers not too fast?

A ship owned by an empire has the range shown in its range icon and the strength shown in its empire's detection strength.

An unowned ship (a "monster") will have range = strength.

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Oberlus
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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#6 Post by Oberlus »

Daybreak wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 7:54 am Plus it leaves ti open for us to have different detection strengths based on pilots, and species that colonised a planet, for future enhancements if we wanted.
Never. UI would be painful.

How do you know the detection strength in system A when it is colored in your detection range color but you don't know if it is under sight of your 50 detection-strength scout or under your 70 detection-strength planet?

The answer is: give up this subject.

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#7 Post by Ophiuchus »

you could also search for previous discussions about different detection strength in the forum and link them here (and continue discussion there)

or if you want the painless version, follow oberlus suggestion
Oberlus wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:12 am The answer is: give up this subject.
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Daybreak
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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#8 Post by Daybreak »

lol

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#9 Post by Ophiuchus »

Note UI-wise that it could make sense to do something about the icons, but only for monsters/natives.

E.g. use a different icon for unowned objects to indicate that it has a different meaning.

Actually the current icon for unowned objects is the "correct" one, as it is the same as the one used for empire detection strength. So in principle we should another icon for all empire ship detection strength.

The mouseover should also not read "Detection Range" for those unowned objects. With current content, I think detection range does not mean anything for monsters and neutrals, so it could actually read "Detection Strength".

If the detection range would mean something for monsters or neutrals, we probably should also paint their detection bubbles when selecting one, as we do for empire ships.

p.s.:
Of course our backend does not yet have a facility to give different icons for different kinds of universe objects. So, implementation-wise it would be probably easier to add/use a detection strength meter for (all/some?) unowned objects (instead of the detection range meter).

But then we have the special case that empire ships may become unowned via the psy snowflakes and we would have to handle the transition.

And similar for the more common case that native planets can be invaded and empire outposts/colonies can become unowned (e.g. independence).

so handling the transition does not make much sense, but adding both types of meters does not make sense either. so a GUI solution is preferrable

p.p.s. Note that the object meter is only called METER_DETECTION/Detection. The empire meter is called METER_DETECTION_STRENGTH.
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Daybreak
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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#10 Post by Daybreak »

Agree

Putting aside any changes to DS (Detection Stength) - [although it leaves it open to minimal/major change if needed]

It makes sense to just have a "standard" that fits all scenarios, and by giving DS to everything irrespective that you can see it in the empire screen for an empire, it just makes it simpler, and less confusing.

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#11 Post by Ophiuchus »

Daybreak wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:05 am It makes sense to just have a "standard" that fits all scenarios, and by giving DS to everything irrespective that you can see it in the empire screen for an empire, it just makes it simpler, and less confusing.
I disagree in this case. Not if it clutters the UI. For natives/monsters detection range is (mostly?) irrelevant. For empire ships/planets detection strength is always the same, giving the impression that it does depend on the ship/planet actually can also confuse the player.
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Oberlus
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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#12 Post by Oberlus »

I hope you change nothing in the icons except the texts in the tooltips and Pedia pages.

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#13 Post by BlueAward »

My two cents is that I had trouble finding what is detection strength of given monster or planet. I did debug data dump from object list and have not yet noticed it is the same as "range" in the gui. Until this thread. Especially for planets! So well maybe I should read some manual or something but definitely color me confused!

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#14 Post by LienRag »

BlueAward wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:50 am My two cents is that I had trouble finding what is detection strength of given monster or planet.
Yes, Monster's detection strength (that it is equal to its detection range) is not in the documentation.
This is the problem that needs to be solved.
No beginner is supposed to guess that by himself, and having to ask this question on the forum is not what we should expect of any new player.

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Re: Detection Range and Strength

#15 Post by Ophiuchus »

Oberlus wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:24 am I hope you change nothing in the icons except the texts in the tooltips and Pedia pages.
if i would change something i would take a variation of the same icon.

this is a minor issue and i guess it will be messy to add the necessary support in our UI/UI framework (geoff or somebody else who knows the GUI well, would need to comment on that) - also because the distinguishing factor(s) are arbitrary from the point of view of the backend

for the text tooltip it would be enough to distinguish if this

i dont have the time to fix that. and as nobody opens an issue it will be likely ignored and forgotten.

for myself i make a mental note to address this in the next GUI (e.g. the godot one).

what we should do now: change the monster pedia texts
geoff, Can you offer any input on feasability of showing different icons / tooltip text for the same meter?
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