ship technology

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Eddie
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#76 Post by Eddie »

The system i'm proposing is quite restricting compared to Moo2 + 3. But the good thing about that is that unbalanced ship designs like mass one shot pd missiles mixed with a few big nukes can be prevented by not putting in a ship type that allows this kind of armament. Furthermore, programming ship design AI will be much easier.

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Krikkitone
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#77 Post by Krikkitone »

I really don't think that would be a good model, to limiting, etc. the way I would do it

1. Your ship starts out as a bunch of ship systems (Armor, Computer, Weapon, Engine, Shield, Supply storage, etc.)

2. The sum of the sizes of all of those systems determines the total size of the ship (which influences some ship stats like maneuverability, stealth, evasion, armor thickness, speed)

3. You then choose a Ship Shape (which has a few remaining influences on the above factors)... ship shapes would mostly be idealized for certain weapon types, etc. It might also be limited by the Systems you have (if you have a massive Linear Accellerator Canon making up 20% of the ships volume, it can't be a sphere)

4. Finally once you are done and Finalized with the design you get to name it, the Default name is based on the Total size of the Ship (so on that was 123,402 space would have a default name of Dreadnought X and one that was 2,034 would be default Frigate X.) This would also determine the Graphics used to depicty the ship in combat. (ship of size 113,495 would use Dreadnought graphics, ship of size 2,134 would use Frigate graphics)

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Geoff the Medio
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#78 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Krikkitone wrote:3. You then choose a Ship Shape (which has a few remaining influences on the above factors)... ship shapes would mostly be idealized for certain weapon types, etc. It might also be limited by the Systems you have (if you have a massive Linear Accellerator Canon making up 20% of the ships volume, it can't be a sphere)
Ship shape sounds pretty much the same as picking a ship type as Eddie proposes, except that you pick the components first, then the shape, rather than type then specific weapons. .. But regardless, if a shape/type choice were to be required, I'd think it better to pick the type/shape first, then the weapons to put into it. It seems likely you'd have people picking sets of weapons for which no shape is allowed, which would be frustrating. So, it'd be better to pick the set of restrictions (type or shape) first, then pick from a filtered set of weapons that can go into that shape/type.

ewh02b
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#79 Post by ewh02b »

I'm liking the proposal of the past few posts...I have a solution.

What the admiral wants is weapons. if we let the admiral pick them first, then one way to ensure that the space needed is available is to have a bunch of graphics depicting all the different sizes and shapes of ships (perhaps a column for small, medium, and large).

When someone selects a linear accelerator, the small ships dissappear or turn gray or something. Also, the disk and sphere shaped ships turn gray. If they try and add another weapon that's incompatible, an error message pops up. If they simply mouse over a weapon, the possible ships are outlined or otherwise highlighted.

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utilae
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#80 Post by utilae »

ewh02b wrote: When someone selects a linear accelerator, the small ships dissappear or turn gray or something. Also, the disk and sphere shaped ships turn gray. If they try and add another weapon that's incompatible, an error message pops up. If they simply mouse over a weapon, the possible ships are outlined or otherwise highlighted.
There is more than just a weapon that determines a ship.

The tried and true method of choose hull, fit weapons, equipment, etc inside is the best way. You could also have the option of choosing the weapons, equipment etc and then taking a hull exactly equal to the room all the components take up.

And we sure as ____ do not want annoying error messages popping up all the time. So find another way, such as having a dedicated bar down the bottom that displays messages and does not require the user to click ok or anything.

ewh02b
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#81 Post by ewh02b »

utilae wrote: There is more than just a weapon that determines a ship.

The tried and true method of choose hull, fit weapons, equipment, etc inside is the best way. You could also have the option of choosing the weapons, equipment etc and then taking a hull exactly equal to the room all the components take up.
that was sorta the idea--the player selects the speed and manuverability they want, and the weapons they want, and as they choose each element, the hull types to choose from narrows down. I suppose we could set it up to work either way--the player could first click the hull size and type desired, then click weapons and other parts.

The key under either system would be for a running total of PP's and turns required being displayed somewhere.
And we sure as ____ do not want annoying error messages popping up all the time. So find another way, such as having a dedicated bar down the bottom that displays messages and does not require the user to click ok or anything.
Yeah, no error messages. I was thinking in terms of the "invalid site" beep in starcraft. A message bar is good, too.

marhawkman
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#82 Post by marhawkman »

utilae wrote:And we sure as ____ do not want annoying error messages popping up all the time. So find another way, such as having a dedicated bar down the bottom that displays messages and does not require the user to click ok or anything.
what about greying out invalid options?
Computer programming is fun.

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Krikkitone
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#83 Post by Krikkitone »

ewh02b wrote:
that was sorta the idea--the player selects the speed and manuverability they want, and the weapons they want, and as they choose each element, the hull types to choose from narrows down. I suppose we could set it up to work either way--the player could first click the hull size and type desired, then click weapons and other parts.

The key under either system would be for a running total of PP's and turns required being displayed somewhere.
One point, the SIZE if the hull should never be selected. The size of the hull should be however big it will need to be to fit the Stuff in it. (especially since there is no advantage to making a Hull bigger except to put more stuff in... like more armor, more reinforcement, more shields, more engines, more cloaking systems... all of which it will need because they should get less effective at larger sizes)

ewh02b
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#84 Post by ewh02b »

Krikkitone wrote: One point, the SIZE if the hull should never be selected.
Well, okay. We'd just have one row of ship icons with the different shapes, and as the player adds more stuff to the ship, the icons representing it increase in size.

I think the point of having fixed hull sizes would be for display purposes, by the way.

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utilae
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#85 Post by utilae »

marhawkman wrote: what about greying out invalid options?
Yeah, that's good. This happened in Moo2, even though it was text being greyed out.
Krikkitone wrote: One point, the SIZE if the hull should never be selected. The size of the hull should be however big it will need to be to fit the Stuff in it. (especially since there is no advantage to making a Hull bigger except to put more stuff in... like more armor, more reinforcement, more shields, more engines, more cloaking systems... all of which it will need because they should get less effective at larger sizes)
If your going for "hull to fit components", then no selecting size of the hull. The size will be the same to fit the components. You can still select what to make the hull out of, whether it's organic etc.

If your going for "components fit into hull", then you have to select the hull (size) first.

We could have both of these methods, as a player may be more comfortable with either way of design. I for instance would like to pick my hull size, then put the components in because I feel more comfortable judging the size of my ships that way. If I choose a small hull I know it's gonna be small.

Choosing 20 lasers, a engine and shields does not tell me straight away what size the ship is. In this case, as you drag the crew cabin here, put the cargo cabin there and add engines on the left and right, weapons on the wings, you are shown as you add components the size of your ship and what size class this lies within.
eg
If your ships is shown as size 521, then it also tells us thats a medium ship, since mediums have a hull size of 500.

ewh02b
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#86 Post by ewh02b »

utilae wrote: We could have both of these methods, as a player may be more comfortable with either way of design. I for instance would like to pick my hull size, then put the components in because I feel more comfortable judging the size of my ships that way. If I choose a small hull I know it's gonna be small.

Choosing 20 lasers, a engine and shields does not tell me straight away what size the ship is. In this case, as you drag the crew cabin here, put the cargo cabin there and add engines on the left and right, weapons on the wings, you are shown as you add components the size of your ship and what size class this lies within.
eg
If your ships is shown as size 521, then it also tells us thats a medium ship, since mediums have a hull size of 500.
Either way, the player should be told how many PP's and turns it's gonna take to build the ship.

I suppose the question is, do we want the user to design his ship (to place laser turrets on the sides, missile launchers on the front, and so on) or do we want the game to place them?

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Krikkitone
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#87 Post by Krikkitone »

utilae wrote: Choosing 20 lasers, a engine and shields does not tell me straight away what size the ship is.
Who says?
In this case, as you drag the crew cabin here, put the cargo cabin there and add engines on the left and right, weapons on the wings, you are shown as you add components the size of your ship and what size class this lies within.
Exactly this is how it should work. (You just would have the Here/There business) as you add/subtract crew cabins weapons, shields, etc. the size of the ship changes, and is continuously displayed somewhere


I suppose the question is, do we want the user to design his ship (to place laser turrets on the sides, missile launchers on the front, and so on) or do we want the game to place them?
Neither, the ship systems shouldn't have a "place" on the ship

Weapons might have Firing Arcs, [engines could have 'Firing Arcs' but those would automatically be on the back...that's what makes it the back] but otherwise the only "place" ship systems should be is Inside the ship or Outside the ship. (of course this is another of the determinations that should be automatic)

I'd imagine two parts to firing Arcs
1. Direction it is centered on (6-12 different options depending on whether or not we incorporate 3D)
2. How Wide the Arc is (Fixed= straight line only, you aim the weapon by turning the ship, normal=30-60 degrees in each direction, Wide=90 degrees in each direction)
Last edited by Krikkitone on Mon Mar 27, 2006 9:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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utilae
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#88 Post by utilae »

ewh02b wrote: I suppose the question is, do we want the user to design his ship (to place laser turrets on the sides, missile launchers on the front, and so on) or do we want the game to place them?
It would be ultimate if you could choose exactly where you want the ship parts, essentially building the appearance of the ship as you add each component. So yes, you would add turets, cabins, compartments, wings, choose to coat in layer of armour. Choose paint job. Have radar antenae sticking out the front.

Woohoo !!!!

That would be great.

marhawkman
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#89 Post by marhawkman »

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f297/ ... mockup.jpg

I did a mockup for adding abeamweapon. :)
Computer programming is fun.

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utilae
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#90 Post by utilae »

I think it is too complex to be in the game. I'm not too worried about having to create weapons in the game.

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