Request for Comments: Multiple Research Steps Per Turn?

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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eleazar
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#16 Post by eleazar »

Geoff the Medio wrote:
eleazar wrote:On further reflection, i think that research on a tech shouldn't begin until after it's dependancies are finished.
OK, I think there is some confusion here. I'm not asking whether you should be able to put RP towards project 2 if you have enqueued, but not yet researched, project 1. The question only applies to the exact turn on which you finish project 1. On that turn, after spending the RP to finish project one, should you be allowed to put RP towards project 2, or should you have to wait until the next turn? There is no "head start", in that you have to have actually finished researching all prereqs before starting researching each new tech.
I understand what you meant, it's just cumbersome to talk about.

Let's suppose the player is researching a tree thus:
  • tech 1: 5 turns minimum
    tech 2: 10 turns minimum
    tech 3: 15 turns minimum
According to the current rules it would take 30 turns minimum to research all three techs. This is, i believe best, by virtue of obviousness.

If the game rules are like so:
you are able to put RP towards a tech on the same turn that you research its prerequisites
Then the previous sequence could theoretically be completed in 28 turns. This would not destroy the game, but is certainly less intuitive.

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Geoff the Medio
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#17 Post by Geoff the Medio »

eleazar wrote:As far as the enqueueing order, off the top of my head i'd:
  • 1) all currently researchable techs
    — sorted by RP cost
    2) the next "layer" of techs
    — sorted by RP cost
    3) etc.
    4) the desired tech.
I tried this (and it was surprisingly complicated to set up), but upon testing, I've noticed that I end up with situations where, after the first few techs get researched, I'll have a remaining incomplete first-layer tech enqeued that will take many turns to finish, with a second-layer tech enqueued below it that could finish faster if the tech above it wasn't taking up all the RP with higher priority.

So, as alternatively suggested, just sorting by turns to complete, cost per turn, or the product of the two would likely be better...

marhawkman
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#18 Post by marhawkman »

eleazar wrote:Let's suppose the player is researching a tree thus:
  • tech 1: 5 turns minimum
    tech 2: 10 turns minimum
    tech 3: 15 turns minimum
According to the current rules it would take 30 turns minimum to research all three techs. This is, i believe best, by virtue of obviousness.

If the game rules are like so:
you are able to put RP towards a tech on the same turn that you research its prerequisites
Then the previous sequence could theoretically be completed in 28 turns. This would not destroy the game, but is certainly less intuitive.
Well.... If you have enough RP you can research all three simultaneously, thus giving you a total research time of 15. (at least with the current system)
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eleazar
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#19 Post by eleazar »

marhawkman wrote:Well.... If you have enough RP you can research all three simultaneously, thus giving you a total research time of 15. (at least with the current system)
No. I mentioned the example was of a tech tree.

To clarify, in this example "Tech 1" is a prerequisite of "Tech 2", as "Tech 2" is of "Tech 3".

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#20 Post by marhawkman »

ah. Well you can't research stuff you don't have the pre-reqs for..... I can understand why it'd be good to be able to queue it but I don't see a practical benefit to being able to work on researching it before you have the reqs.
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#21 Post by Aquitaine »

I would answer this question with 'no.' You should not be able to start and finish a project in the same turn, ever.
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Geoff the Medio
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#22 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Aquitaine wrote:I would answer this question with 'no.' You should not be able to start and finish a project in the same turn, ever.
That's not the question. The question is whether you could start a second project on the same turn you finished one of its prerequisites.

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utilae
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#23 Post by utilae »

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Aquitaine wrote:I would answer this question with 'no.' You should not be able to start and finish a project in the same turn, ever.
That's not the question. The question is whether you could start a second project on the same turn you finished one of its prerequisites.
Is this even an issue?

I mean, if a project ends, it only ends at the end of the turn, so if you start the next project, then you are in the next turn.

But I see you are also saying when you have enough RP to do a bunch of techs in one turn. I think you should still be able to get them all complete.

Aquitaine
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#24 Post by Aquitaine »

Oh, okay, sorry about that.

If I finish research a project on some turn and have RP left over, those RP are wasted - not shuttled into the next project.

Simpler that way.
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marhawkman
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#25 Post by marhawkman »

:?: but doesn't it already work kinda like that? you have two projects one fully funded one half funded, then when you finish the fully funded one the half funded one gets the leftover RP for that turn doesn't it?
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utilae
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#26 Post by utilae »

Let's have a look at two examples:

Race A 5000rp per turn
=====

tech A needs 50, -50rp given by Race A
4950rp wasted !!!!!

Race B 200rp per turn
=====

tech A needs 50, -50rp given by Race B
150rp wasted, but at least its no 5000.


I would prefer:
Race A 5000rp per turn
=====

tech A needs 50, -50rp given by Race A
tech B needs 500, -500rp given by Race A
tech C needs 1000, -1000rp given by Race A
tech D needs 200, -200rp given by Race A
tech E needs 5000, -3250rp given by Race A

tech E still needs 1750 to be complete. . . next turn

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eleazar
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#27 Post by eleazar »

utilae wrote: ...
I would prefer:
...
marhawkman wrote:but doesn't it already work kinda like that?
How Research works has already been designed and coded. We're not starting over. Geoff is raising a question about a relatively minor aspect of the system. If you missed that, please go back to the first post in this thread.

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#28 Post by noelte »

marhawkman wrote::?: but doesn't it already work kinda like that? you have two projects one fully funded one half funded, then when you finish the fully funded one the half funded one gets the leftover RP for that turn doesn't it?
No. You missed the point that B depends on A in that situation. RP are spend at one time to all available techs. So as long as A is not researched, B is not available.
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