Racial Types and Tech

[Tortanick]

Definately, we'll worry about this when v0.8 is comeing

P.S. Biology specialist would have had the exact same effects on research as "insect" would in you're proposal, just that it dosn't have to be an insect this time around.

[Rho]

I just wanna go back to a thing in my last post, something involving the distinction between civs and species.

A civ essentially needs three types of advanced technnology: power, construction and information storage.

The species is what the creatures are. The civ is the society they form. These are not the same.

The species themselves may have additional picks, but I want to focus on the civ ones. To have to choose between three types of technologies to base the civ's technology on would still give variation to the game without overcomplicating it. I think I listed some basic changes between metal, crystal, and biological in the organic ships thread. In my last post, I also sketched out some research areas that each type of civ would be best at.

looking at the tech tree, the various fields would probably be "Growth" and "Industry" rather than metal and biology.

I'd like to suggest there be added a metal/crystal/bio/neutral tag to all research items.

Our computer system deals with yes and no, not maybe. There are conditions, but no maybe. A biological computer might work differently, so some information/computer-related research items might be tagged bio. Most radiation-related items would be crystal-tagged because many crystals aren't opaque like metals. Most farming-related items would be tagged bio. Most kinds of mining would be tagged either metal or crystal. Stealth technologies would mostly be tagged crystal. Sociology items would most likely be tagged neutral.

Unless there are specific branches of science, like chemistry, biology, information science, metallurgy, etc., those flags would be useful for giving the different types of civs different bonuses.

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Note also that another benefit of this is that civs using the same kind of technology would have an easier time adapting traded techs. That's realistically. I think using civs based on different techs would give the diplomacy a little more spice: if you had to trade with the right civ or wait several turns for traded technology to be adapted to your type of tech.

Another benefit of this is the types of ships that can be built and has been suggested in the organic ships thread. A metal-based civ builds the best metal-based ships, at least until they've advanced enough in other sciences to build crystal or organic ships (or ships made of plastic, force fields, nanorobots, liquid, or whatever else can be conceived). A crystal-based civ builds crystal ships, a bio-based civ builds bio ships.

Although I see Tortanick's point with being "much happier choosing what that means myself, and giving the bonuses and penalties I feel are appropriate". Maybe someone feels their civ is based on manipulating the DNA-equivalent of metallic lifeforms.

[Bigjoe5]

I agree that civs based on different tech types would give the game more spice, but that can be achieved by simply having each race specialize in a tech type. Then you would get interesting high-level tech trades with different species. Of course, the tags would work too. We'll have to have a big debate when v.8 rolls around.

[marhawkman]

I just thought of something that'd be interesting flavor-wise at least, a race of sentient hermit crabs. All buildings and ships would be the "shell" of a single crab.

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So what if it's a corny idea?

[Tortanick]

Its unique, original, very different to Humans. I like it!

[Rho]

I just thought of something that'd be interesting flavor-wise at least, a race of sentient hermit crabs. All buildings and ships would be the "shell" of a single crab.

Interesting, but how does it differ, gameplaywise, to any other material?

As I've suggested before, I'd like to pick the materials the civ uses for construction and information storage. I've listen possible ones before, so q quick reminder:

Metal - metal structures and electronic computers
Crystal - crystal structures and optic computers
Biological - organic structures and brain computers

Naturally, as the civ advances in tech, any civ could build a colony based on any of the three materials and develop technologies using any of the three computer technology types, but these are what they'd be starting with.

Crystal would be the most durable in terms of ships and such (seeing as diamonds are the hardest thing knon to man (at least known to me)), so a crystal-based civ would have higher defense and take less damage. Also, they'd have the fastest computers.

Metal would be the second most durable, and possibly the fastest to construct with, so a production and industry boost would make sense. However, I suspect the computers wouldn't be as effective as the complex biological ones or the fast optic ones.

Biological would be the weakest but the one that regenerates the easiest - usually self-maintaining. Computerwise, they might be able to research more complex things, maybe more than one thing at a time, maybe a boost in researching less tangible things that other computers can only approach statistically.

This has tangible gameplay effects beyond graphical differences.

More gameplay effects, in my last post:

Note also that another benefit of this is that civs using the same kind of technology would have an easier time adapting traded techs. That's realistically. I think using civs based on different techs would give the diplomacy a little more spice: if you had to trade with the right civ or wait several turns for traded technology to be adapted to your type of tech.

Another benefit of this is the types of ships that can be built and has been suggested in the organic ships thread. A metal-based civ builds the best metal-based ships, at least until they've advanced enough in other sciences to build crystal or organic ships (or ships made of plastic, force fields, nanorobots, liquid, or whatever else can be conceived). A crystal-based civ builds crystal ships, a bio-based civ builds bio ships.

[utilae]

Along with organic, metal and crystal, you can also have energy. The only problem is that energy might well have too many advantages, though we could always find some significant weaknesses as well.

[Tortanick]

energy hulls could be treated as a shield, so their vulnerable to anti-shield weaponry, strong against anti-hull weaponry and recharge.

[Rho]

Along with organic, metal and crystal, you can also have energy.

I don't see how information storage could be done as solely energy, but whatever civ would develop it probably don't think like I do anyway. Just like I find the liquid-ship idea cool, I don't think liquid-based information storage works, or liquid constructions.

Let's examine energy's potenial as an equal to metal, crystal, and organic. I guess the entire structure (ship or building) would be a projection of sorts. The storage system is beyond me, but probably subatomic particles interacting in repeating ways. However that'd work, practically.

Ships wouldn't leave much debris. They would, however, require far more power. It'd be one single friggin' shield. However, the energy source likely conains non-energy components. Consider he possibility of multiple power sources, multiple different projections each can generate, and that they can combine into one single friggin' ship. Full structural regen, and the possibility of changing into a smaller ship if taken too much damage.

Likewise with strucures - buildings. If one takes enough damage, it can join with another damaged structure rather than just be destroyed. But building might be more costly than with the others.

Energy, Crystal, Metal, Organic. So we have those. What can we do with them?

1) Compatible civs trade tech easier. Incompatible civs require time to adapt the technologies to their own kind of tech.
2) Biological weapons would screw up biological-based technologies, just like EMP screw up electronics. This means more weapons to choose from, and more strategy in picking the right one. Just... what is a crystal weapon?
3) Each has their own set of abilities, like regen/repair time, energy required to run...

[marhawkman]

Weapons that use concussive force? Crystallne technology would(in theory) rely on regularly place molecules, concussive weapons would disrupt that.

I think that another good balance for energy tech would be to make it so the ships disintegrate if they ever run out of power.

[Rho]

The typical scifi ship from Earth is metallic, and may have shields (depending on the level of technology). It uses electronics, possibly optronics (optics and electronics) for computing. This can be classed as:

Energy defense
Metal body
Metal-Optic (Crystal) computer

A classic alien ship also has shields, but might be composed of crystal rather than metal. It tends to rely on optic computing.

Energy defense
Crystal body
Optic (Crystal) computer

A more bizarre alien ships is organic. It might have shields, but in this example we'll say it uses crystal structures (organs or outgrowths or whatever) to deflect radiation and energy shots. An organic ship would naturally rely mostly on an organic computer, the ship's literal brain, to function.

Crystal defense
Organic body
Organic computer

Let's play with the idea of an energy ship. The hull would be hard shields. The computer is beyond me, but I guess the interface would be volumetric (what most call holographic), given that shields would likely be projected a volumetric display wouldn't be so hard. What external shields could they use? Let's say they have something like lichen that absorbs energy (in reality, lichen does absorb radiation), just for the sake of a bizarre ship.

Organic defense
Energy body
Energy computer

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Even if none of these rely solely on one type of technology, they're each relying heavily on one. The Earth one of metal, the alien one on crystal, the bizarre alien one on organic, and the experimental one on energy.

A factor we could also consider is the type of technology used for power. For this example, there's electrical, there's radiation (think light, or temperature), there's chemical, and there's "pure" energy, respectively. These could be included as well. Just as with the examples above, there's some bleedthrough between them. In reality, we're using a lot of chemical power to create electrical power. As for radiation, we have solar plants as well, that's radiation power, and the prospective microwave power.

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In order to prevent separate tech trees, advances in each of these could be kept apart but remain freely researchable, and different combinations could be used when designing ships or setting the primary power source on any particular world. Overall, the civ would mostly stick to their "native" technology, which for humans, currently, would be electrical power, historically, it was chemical and that's still present today. Different power plants would of course convert power from one form to the native one.

In the example of microwave power, plants could turn geothermal power (which is essentially steam power) into radiation power. In the example of modern Earth, there's fossil fuels being used to produce electrical energy.

[utilae]

Here's one way I have imagined a ship made out of energy to work.

Instead of objects being made out of matter, they are made out of energy particles. As an example, in a metal ship a wire would be made out of matter and have energy travel along it. With an energy ship the wire would be made out of energy particles and have energy travel along it. The energy ship could possible have the ability to use its 'frame' (eg the wire) as a source of energy if it did not have the energy to put through. And such technology would glow and possible be transparant if the glow wasn't too bright. But thats what I have anyway.

[marhawkman]

I just thought of something that'd be interesting flavor-wise at least, a race of sentient hermit crabs. All buildings and ships would be the "shell" of a single "crab".

Interesting, but how does it differ, gameplaywise, to any other material?

After doing more thinking....

It's an organic variant that causes the race to interact differently with bioweapons designed to kill colonists. Since each of your buildings and ships is a colonist, there is a chance that the weapons would kill them. Also opponents would have to assimilate them into their empire as they would captured population. It'd also mean that any ship of your empire could be used to start a colony, but with inferior results to actually colonizing.

[Tortanick]

If most ships are one crab in a huge shell, you couldn't start a colony with one guy.

In my opinion the Hermit crabs wouldn't be different from normal organic ships ingame

[marhawkman]

If most ships are one crab in a huge shell, you couldn't start a colony with one guy.

In my opinion the Hermit crabs wouldn't be different from normal organic ships ingame

there'd still be a crew. The difference is that "kills crew" weapons would be able to kill the ship itself.