Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Moderator: Oberlus
Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
I wouldn't use interspecies, when we get to multi-species empires we'd probably want something a bit more flexible than SMAC style governments.
For the names Controlled, Regulated, Deregulated works better than Constrictive, Neutral, Accomodating mostly because a constrictive economy taken literally is basically stupid. constriction is the opposite of growth.
I'd also try to make each one individual its just more interesting that way, so in addition to pluses and minuses each one could have a special effect. Some possibilities:
Economy: Controlled makes it cheaper to manipulate people with money, spend x per turn to boost population growth, and resistance to your opponents doing that to you. However deregulated economies grow faster. (Presumably even a deregulated ecconomy is regulated enough to stop a monopoly growing so big it can overrule the emperor, that's just not KISS)
Social (not to sure if this works, but its worth posting): Controlled limits your races ethos to its core, but heaven help you if you break it. Deregulated gives you secondary ethoses to worry about but your people are a bit more flexible. For example under a controlled society the Eaxaw go into revolt if you aren't genociding everyone you see, under a deregulated society they'll accept a slower paced campaign of extermination, but they also want you to follow "family values"
For the names Controlled, Regulated, Deregulated works better than Constrictive, Neutral, Accomodating mostly because a constrictive economy taken literally is basically stupid. constriction is the opposite of growth.
I'd also try to make each one individual its just more interesting that way, so in addition to pluses and minuses each one could have a special effect. Some possibilities:
Economy: Controlled makes it cheaper to manipulate people with money, spend x per turn to boost population growth, and resistance to your opponents doing that to you. However deregulated economies grow faster. (Presumably even a deregulated ecconomy is regulated enough to stop a monopoly growing so big it can overrule the emperor, that's just not KISS)
Social (not to sure if this works, but its worth posting): Controlled limits your races ethos to its core, but heaven help you if you break it. Deregulated gives you secondary ethoses to worry about but your people are a bit more flexible. For example under a controlled society the Eaxaw go into revolt if you aren't genociding everyone you see, under a deregulated society they'll accept a slower paced campaign of extermination, but they also want you to follow "family values"
Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Yeah, I like your names better, but hopefully you see what I mean about putting all the options as different facets of a single trichotomy. It makes the system intuitive, meaningful (gameplay-wise), and simple to program (both now and in the future). That is what we need to be striving for.
PS: By interspecies I meant how the empire dealt with immigrants/captured aliens, and how it dealt with borders. Again, those were just a couple of (poorly named) examples, I was really trying to point to the overall framework.
PS: By interspecies I meant how the empire dealt with immigrants/captured aliens, and how it dealt with borders. Again, those were just a couple of (poorly named) examples, I was really trying to point to the overall framework.
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Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
I sort of guessed that's what you meant, but how you deal with captured species probably should be choosable on a species by species basis, as for foreign policy I'm not too sure it works to have that controllable through the government pics since you control it directly with diplomacy (same goes for foreign trade)
I'm sure there's plenty of options we can include that rejecting a few here and there isn't going to be a problem the trick is finding fun ones rather than a few nameless pluses and minuses.
I'm sure there's plenty of options we can include that rejecting a few here and there isn't going to be a problem the trick is finding fun ones rather than a few nameless pluses and minuses.
- Krikkitone
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Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Well I think a Trichotomy might not be the best, for some variation perhaps a 4-fold.
Unified
Controlled
Regulated
Free
ie using the "economy" section. for 'explanation'
Unified=a single entity controls the entire economy [ie a super monopoly-trust/ communist government/school of economists that society so widely respects that everyone does what they say]
Controlled=multiple large entities control the economy
Regulated=multiple small entities and a few large entities control the economy
Free=No large scale economic controlling entity exists
(Put this way, most of the non-communist world moves between the center two... but with either advanced technology or the right species, the extreme ends could be made efficient.)
And as for captured species, there should be some species by species basis... the "general policy" would tend to make certain things more effective.. A "Unified" species policiy makes Xenocide go faster and allows you less effective use of newly captured Bulrathi troops [if Bulrathi is not the 'privileged' race]. An Accomodating one lets you get a strong benefit of the different species in your empire, but makes controlling/eliminating them harder.
Unified
Controlled
Regulated
Free
ie using the "economy" section. for 'explanation'
Unified=a single entity controls the entire economy [ie a super monopoly-trust/ communist government/school of economists that society so widely respects that everyone does what they say]
Controlled=multiple large entities control the economy
Regulated=multiple small entities and a few large entities control the economy
Free=No large scale economic controlling entity exists
(Put this way, most of the non-communist world moves between the center two... but with either advanced technology or the right species, the extreme ends could be made efficient.)
And as for captured species, there should be some species by species basis... the "general policy" would tend to make certain things more effective.. A "Unified" species policiy makes Xenocide go faster and allows you less effective use of newly captured Bulrathi troops [if Bulrathi is not the 'privileged' race]. An Accomodating one lets you get a strong benefit of the different species in your empire, but makes controlling/eliminating them harder.
Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Sme of these things would probably work better as citizen preferences than as government picks. Government picks should maybe do something bigger than that....
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- Krikkitone
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Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Citizen preferences should parallel government picks.
That way you know what government your population wants. As for effects
Your Government effect should depend on what technologies you have.
So if you have a "Free" "Political" situation (ie democracy/group mind) then Advanced Voting technologies would boost it. (but they would give no benefit to a "Unified" "Political" situation)
Essentially you have all those options to begin with, and as time goes on various 'government' options get secial benefits from different techs [many techs would probably only give special benefits to a limited number of governments, they might have some generic effect as well]
That way you know what government your population wants. As for effects
Your Government effect should depend on what technologies you have.
So if you have a "Free" "Political" situation (ie democracy/group mind) then Advanced Voting technologies would boost it. (but they would give no benefit to a "Unified" "Political" situation)
Essentially you have all those options to begin with, and as time goes on various 'government' options get secial benefits from different techs [many techs would probably only give special benefits to a limited number of governments, they might have some generic effect as well]
Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Presumably citizens would prefer to live under the government type of their original empire.
Government types should probably be focused around the players general playstyle, either military, diplomatic, introvertive or balanced. A player who's likely to capture an enemy farming world when he runs out of food would do better to pick a military style of government. A player who would trade for food would pick the diplomatic government type, and the player who would steal food with his spies would pick the introvertive type.
Presumably each type would have some specific type of bonus that can't be acquired through regular picks, for example the military type might have decreased ship maintenence, the diplomatic type might be more accepted by other races who find themselves a part of their empire. The introvertive type could get a bonus to max espionage meter value.
Balanced would probably have some combination of similar bonuses. I pretty much see unification as being the balanced government.
Government types should probably be focused around the players general playstyle, either military, diplomatic, introvertive or balanced. A player who's likely to capture an enemy farming world when he runs out of food would do better to pick a military style of government. A player who would trade for food would pick the diplomatic government type, and the player who would steal food with his spies would pick the introvertive type.
Presumably each type would have some specific type of bonus that can't be acquired through regular picks, for example the military type might have decreased ship maintenence, the diplomatic type might be more accepted by other races who find themselves a part of their empire. The introvertive type could get a bonus to max espionage meter value.
Balanced would probably have some combination of similar bonuses. I pretty much see unification as being the balanced government.
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- Krikkitone
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Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
agreeBigjoe5 wrote: Presumably citizens would prefer to live under the government type of their original empire.
agreeBigjoe5 wrote: Government types should probably be focused around the players general playstyle,
Bigjoe5 wrote: either military, diplomatic, introvertive or balanced.
that list of playstyles is biased towards a system where the social portion of the game is minimal.
Ideally I'd say play styles would be based on
1) how you deal with other empires
2) how you deal with "social problems" in your own empire
1-militarily/diplomatically/not at all (so conquer/trade/or do it yourself)
2-eliminate "social problems"/tolerate them/exploit them
A military government could have all three of those 'internal' responces... do you genocide new worlds to give your people lebensraum, admit them into your empire as full citizens, or make them slaves to serve the homeworld.
exploitation would be have the most risk of rebellion, but would be the most productive/efficient/flexible
tolerance+elimination would have a less risk of rebellion, but would be less productive/flexible
(Tolerance probably less flexible, elimination probably less productive/efficient)
Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
I don't think we really need government types to reflect that aspect of the game. When you start adding factors like that, the number of government types either increase geometrically or are reduced to a checklist.
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- Krikkitone
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Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
Well a checklist/categories is preferable.Bigjoe5 wrote:I don't think we really need government types to reflect that aspect of the game. When you start adding factors like that, the number of government types either increase geometrically or are reduced to a checklist.
ie Civ 4 had ~3000 possible 'governments'. about 1000 that were viable under certain conditions [assuming you had all the techs], but it wasn't excessively complicated with them, because they each had an individual effect (although some were synergistic).
Also governments should DEFINITELY focus on their impact on the internal aspect of the game, for two reasons.
1. that should be an aspect of the game that is more important in an empire builder (as opposed to the RTS style economy/combat aspects, which typically dominate 4X games too much.)
2. What other part of the game would deal with the internal social structure of your empire... that is pretty much "government" by definition.
Re: Governments- a Comprehensive list and discriptions
An evolution on Krikkitone's idea:
Constitution Slider (Culture vs Loyalty)
Democracy---Representative---Autocracy
Represents the level of access your people have to government process. The more democratic
a society is, the more seats your party must contend for in your factional parliament.
If your party becomes a minority government, a vote must be held to declare war or enact new
legislature. Your party must be a majority government in order to change constitution.
Electoral Virtue Slider (Science vs Loyalty)
Merit---Expirience---Zealousness
Represents what virtue your officials are appointed by. The more meritocritous a society
is, the more corruption there will be.
Government Presence Slider (Economy vs Loyalty)
Libertarian---Present---Totalitarian
Represents the level of influence your goverment has on the daily lives of its people.
The more libertarian a society is, the weaker that society is at capturing enemy spies.
Centralization Slider (Growth vs Loyalty)
Decentralized---Federation---Central Government
Represents the level of centralization of your government. The more decentralized a
government is, the weaker your Capital Planet bonuses will be. A completely decentralized
government will gain no benefits whatsoever from having a Capital.
Value Selectionbox
Freedom- Culture++
Enlightenment- Science++
Prosperity- Economy++
Fecundity- Growth++
Obedience- Loyalty++
Represents what value your government attempts to inspire in its people.
------
This opens up venues for increased gameplay depth. If you notice your opponent is booming with economy, attack with spies to disable his stock exchanges. If you notice your opponent is teching, bribe his officials to steal his research. Etc.
Constitution Slider (Culture vs Loyalty)
Democracy---Representative---Autocracy
Represents the level of access your people have to government process. The more democratic
a society is, the more seats your party must contend for in your factional parliament.
If your party becomes a minority government, a vote must be held to declare war or enact new
legislature. Your party must be a majority government in order to change constitution.
Electoral Virtue Slider (Science vs Loyalty)
Merit---Expirience---Zealousness
Represents what virtue your officials are appointed by. The more meritocritous a society
is, the more corruption there will be.
Government Presence Slider (Economy vs Loyalty)
Libertarian---Present---Totalitarian
Represents the level of influence your goverment has on the daily lives of its people.
The more libertarian a society is, the weaker that society is at capturing enemy spies.
Centralization Slider (Growth vs Loyalty)
Decentralized---Federation---Central Government
Represents the level of centralization of your government. The more decentralized a
government is, the weaker your Capital Planet bonuses will be. A completely decentralized
government will gain no benefits whatsoever from having a Capital.
Value Selectionbox
Freedom- Culture++
Enlightenment- Science++
Prosperity- Economy++
Fecundity- Growth++
Obedience- Loyalty++
Represents what value your government attempts to inspire in its people.
------
This opens up venues for increased gameplay depth. If you notice your opponent is booming with economy, attack with spies to disable his stock exchanges. If you notice your opponent is teching, bribe his officials to steal his research. Etc.