Improving the initial game and system survivability

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Fimbul_Fambi
Space Floater
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Improving the initial game and system survivability

#1 Post by Fimbul_Fambi »

Granted this game is nowhere near release, but the pace must be faster in order to keep people interested. I think that I understand the reasons for removing the secondary focus, but I suggest that every colony have some farming, some mining, some research and some industry. These minimums could be modified up or down by just about anything, but shouldn't be negated completely except by several items working together. Many systems may not be very sucessful on their own, or contribute a lot to the empire, but most colonies on terran worlds should be able to at least survive and grow slowly on their own.

Also, I suggest pre-loading the research queue with 30 to 40 items - at least while the game is in development. This would serve several purposes.

1. Those who are new to the game do not need to spend hours trying to figure out the tech tree before they start playing with the game.

2. As long as the items in the queue can be removed or re-ordered, more experienced coders/players can alter the queue to suit their own tastes, or examine the effects of items they want to test.

3. At some point someone is going to have to code the decision tree for how the AI will choose which techs to research and in what order (probably on a per species basis). Those of you who are the primary designers of this project can use the order of the preloaded queue as your test bed for the AI's research queue. At the very least, create a discussion thread somewhere in the forums for what techs you would choose first and why - presumably based on what planetary resources are available at the start of each game.

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Xenon_K
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Re: Improving the initial game and system survivability

#2 Post by Xenon_K »

Fimbul_Fambi wrote:Granted this game is nowhere near release, but the pace must be faster in order to keep people interested. I think that I understand the reasons for removing the secondary focus, but I suggest that every colony have some farming, some mining, some research and some industry. These minimums could be modified up or down by just about anything, but shouldn't be negated completely except by several items working together. Many systems may not be very sucessful on their own, or contribute a lot to the empire, but most colonies on terran worlds should be able to at least survive and grow slowly on their own.

Also, I suggest pre-loading the research queue with 30 to 40 items - at least while the game is in development. This would serve several purposes.

1. Those who are new to the game do not need to spend hours trying to figure out the tech tree before they start playing with the game.

2. As long as the items in the queue can be removed or re-ordered, more experienced coders/players can alter the queue to suit their own tastes, or examine the effects of items they want to test.

3. At some point someone is going to have to code the decision tree for how the AI will choose which techs to research and in what order (probably on a per species basis). Those of you who are the primary designers of this project can use the order of the preloaded queue as your test bed for the AI's research queue. At the very least, create a discussion thread somewhere in the forums for what techs you would choose first and why - presumably based on what planetary resources are available at the start of each game.
I agree, the game plunges the player into the deep end, and the pace is very slow, some may even find it boring.

Even at the start I think you only get a very small amount of research output from the initial colony, so discovering techs takes many hundreds of turns. I had to get to turn 420 before getting about 40RP/TURN and that was quite slow, and that was with 3 colonized planets. Same with production, hundreds of turns to make a colony ship.

It would be great to see like a starting tech level for all races, and then be able to select the races unique techs, or abilities to make the game more challenging or interesting.

At the very least I would like to see a race customization screen with certain bonuses to choose from. And some kind of tech level selector, like in MOO2 you could choose from pre-warp to advanced...

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Gargamel
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Re: Improving the initial game and system survivability

#3 Post by Gargamel »

Xenon_K wrote:
Fimbul_Fambi wrote:
Even at the start I think you only get a very small amount of research output from the initial colony, so discovering techs takes many hundreds of turns. I had to get to turn 420 before getting about 40RP/TURN and that was quite slow, and that was with 3 colonized planets. Same with production, hundreds of turns to make a colony ship.
It just takes some practice.

I'm at turn 327 right now, I have 1.21k RP/t, 1.44k PP/t, +344 surplus / turn of minerals (32k stored), and +163 surplus / turn of food (23k stored). I have 12 fleets of at least 5 warships each (no real use in this build, but I'm getting the practice of deployment), and 40 (?) planets colonized.

Image

It all just depends on where you go with your first few tiers of research. Go for orbital farms and outpost colonies right off the bat, and let the colonies grow into supply lines. Get used to having a planet switching between mining and production to start. Initially, you can't build many colony ships, so while your waiting for your colonized planet to grow up, have everything mining so you can build a reserve, then switch to production to build stuff. If you try to balance it out, you won't be able to produce as much because there won't be enough minerals in reserve. Soon as you have OP colonies, crank them out like little rabbits.

I think the game engine is dead on for the early rounds. The first 40 turns are the most critical in the game. If you fall behind too quickly, you'll be dominated by an opponent who is able to get that jump.

As to preloading the research tree, why not just get a bot to play the game for you? Half the game, as mentioned, is those first few dozen rounds. It took me 2 games to figure out which techs to get and which ones to ignore early in the game.

I think they have mentioned in other posts, they will not have race specific techs, as it can lead to an unbalancing of the game. The race's bonuses would either be unbalanced early (growth/research), late (battle/survivability), or have no affect at all and be pointless.

Zireael
Space Dragon
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Re: Improving the initial game and system survivability

#4 Post by Zireael »

I like the points raised by the OP. And the entire thread should be, methinks, moved to Brainstorming...

@ up: turn 327?! I'm at turn 700+ (solo game just to learn the ropes) and I have 110 RP and 110 PP... with a giant surplus of food and minerals...

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