Tech idea: Wormhole Generator

[hashas]

had an idea for some late game tech concerning the whole starlane system...

Imagine the following:

Empire A is at war with Empire B.
Empire B got one (or more) heavily fortified starlane chokepoints protecting its core worlds. Now A would have to go through them by brute force to attack B.
But now ... in comes the Wormhole Generator!

The Wormhole Generator could be a minor wonder (speak: only one buildable per empire) that creates "shortcuts" to other star systems for your fleets. B got lots of (static) defences on its chokes? Screw it, A just opens a wormhole to its home system!

Considering that this could become quite unbalanced, one could for example say that the creation of a stable wormhole to another system takes some turns, including a warning to the enemy empire that someone is attempting to open a wormhole to their system, giving them time to move their fleets there or building additional defensive structures.

Maybe even make it so that the Generator can only be built around a strong gravity well (black hole or neutron star)

Opinions?

[Geoff the Medio]

Having tech unlock new abilities for empires that are significant alterations to gameplay mechanics - such as this - is something I'd like to support. We can't have all techs be just an additional +5 to X - that would be rather boring.

[eleazar]

Some sort of stargate / wormhole technology would definitely be cool.

I like the idea of connecting them to black-holes and neutron stars.

I'm not sure that we need a 1-per-empire limit. If they are based on black-holes/neutrons then there is already a limit on their number -- assuming one wormhole per location.

[MGyver]

Awesome idea! I also like the idea of connecting them to otherwise-useless black holes and/or neutron stars. Perhaps the limiting factors could include a fairly easy-to-detect signature when one is created, and a 'traffic limit'.

IE: I occupy the top left of the map, enemy occupies bottom right. If I open a wormhole from top-left to bottom-right, its creation will be easily detected and the enemy will rally a defense fleet. Even if his fleet takes time to gather, I can only squeeze 4 ships per turn into my wormhole because of my poor tech, and it takes 3 turns to make the journey from A to B. On top of that, the enemy now has a convenient way to get his fleet directly into my corner of the map! Maybe if I built my wormhole from top-left to top-right and quietly amassed an invasion force....?

Later game techs for wormholes might increase traffic or decrease the time needed to form a new wormhole while preserving its detectability. Other later techs might involve destroying a wormhole, potentially while a fleet is still inside...?

[hashas]

first of all, thx for all the nice feedback from you guys

I'm not sure that we need a 1-per-empire limit. If they are based on black-holes/neutrons then there is already a limit on their number -- assuming one wormhole per location.

was thinking about a build limit because an empire with control over enough black holes could simply "wormhole rush" everyone
but I don't know how common black holes/neutrons will be in the final game...

at least such a building should be a priority target for every other empire out there, maybe even giving the owner a diplomacy penalty (think of like the planet buster in SMAC). Such a device would surely be considered a first strike weapon...

like the idea of the wormholes being two-ways!

one more thing: wormholes should either be destroyable by concentrated firepower or only stable for about two or three turns if no "bridgehead" is established from the other side (meaning if your invasion is not successful in that timeframe your fleet will be stranded in the enemy's system without supplies), maybe coupled with a cooldown period on the building till the next wormhole can be created/constructed

[pd]

It just so happens, I played with wormholes a while ago from a UI perspective. Obviously, there's no overlap here and it's not spanning the entire galaxy.. so solutions for this still need to be found.



I like the idea to use these defensively. An empire which is cornered and blockaded could still escape/expand.

[MGyver]

In the GUI maybe wormholes could be represented by an icon, with the path showing on mouse-over.

[Bigjoe5]

was thinking about a build limit because an empire with control over enough black holes could simply "wormhole rush" everyone
but I don't know how common black holes/neutrons will be in the final game...

Perhaps such a device could only be used to connect player controlled Neutron Stars or Black Holes to other player-controlled systems (or rather, not player controlled, but systems in which a player has managed to build a particular building or station a particular type of ship, for example). This adds much more strategy in setting up the wormhole, as opposed to just being able to build a wormhole from anywhere to the opponent's homeworld.

at least such a building should be a priority target for every other empire out there, maybe even giving the owner a diplomacy penalty (think of like the planet buster in SMAC). Such a device would surely be considered a first strike weapon...

The "real" diplomatic penalty of all other players being afraid of you and wanting to destroy your stuff should generally suffice in such a case. However...

like the idea of the wormholes being two-ways!

This should definitely be the case. If you make a wormhole, and you don't have the military might to keep others from going through it, IMO everyone in the galaxy should be able to use it. Presumably you would always have the option to destroy it though, unless the building or ship that is causing it were to be captured...

one more thing: wormholes should either be destroyable by concentrated firepower or only stable for about two or three turns if no "bridgehead" is established from the other side (meaning if your invasion is not successful in that timeframe your fleet will be stranded in the enemy's system without supplies), maybe coupled with a cooldown period on the building till the next wormhole can be created/constructed

I think this is probably unnecessary, and the risk of the wormhole being used against you is more interesting and meaningful anyway.

Some interesting strategies could be created by combining this tech with starlane cloaking technology:

For example, a player builds a wormhole from a black hole in his empire to a star adjacent to a black hole in the middle of nowhere. He then cloaks the starlane connecting that star and the black hole, then builds a wormhole from that black hole to the heart of his opponent's empire. When his opponent tries to travel back across the wormhole to get him, his fleet ends up in the middle of nowhere, with no way to find the wormhole leading back to the original empire. If he really lacked foresight, he might send a huge amount of his fleet in at once, at which point the original empire could destroy the second wormhole and leave the fleet stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Of course this is subject to the risk of the other empire having adequate detection technology to see the cloaked starlane, or possessing specialized ships capable of detecting such a starlane, and moreover runs the expense of having to build two wormholes instead of just 1.

BTW, there's a CreateStarlane effect now, isn't there? I haven't had the time to build FO lately, so I haven't been able to play around with it. Can the effective length of the starlane be specified in the effects description? 'Cause if so, this tech is already possible.

[PL_Andrev]

I remember wormholes at Stars! game. This anomaly had interesting features:

1) It was a option when player / host creates a game.

2) End of wormhole was created at deep space (something like between stars). It can be created at FO as inside planetary system or at deep space with stalanes to closest 3-4 stars.

3) Second end of wormhole was unknown: when player entered to wormhole he was immediately at second side. After that the way between wormholes was known (was shown).

4) Wormholes were unstable, the stability could be changed from 'rock solid' to 'very unstable'. Rock solid wormholes were very stable, others were changed his position or disappear. Wormholes could be created spontaneously too.

I understand that some effects cannot be created at FO (wormholes at deep space) but time travel / stability effect / unknown end before first use are interesting features.