Actually a black hole wouldn't be much different from a normal star. If the sun turned into a black hole right now it owuld have the same mass and therefore the same gravity. Of course the life giving heat and light would go away but we wouldn't have to worry about us being sheared apart.
No landing on the star would be difficult or impossible, but just orbiting it, eh no biggie.
Moons were brought up once before. And I agree they should be specials. I.e. habitable moon. Basically it would add another "slot" to put defenses, more population/mining output or research. However they should be as rare as the other specials are. And not directly affectable by the players (micromanagement = no).
Moons
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PowerCrazy
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DemoMonkey
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Krikkitone
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Well I'd say Each Planet Can Build two types of Moon Base
First
+ 1 to 'Size' of Planet (The Moon is large and exactly like the planet in Minerals and Environment, when you terraform one, you terraform them both, no stats at all for the Moon and only one of these Per planet ie planet special Colonizable Moon).
Second
The same as Asteroid Bases, Mining/Research Outpost only but they are Not Colonizable like other ones are. (so no ep value but they would have a Mineral and Research level as well as a 'Size').. all planets would probably have one of these moons ..although it could have a 'size' of Zero.
(The Final, and Most Complete and possibly uncomplicated Way to model Moons would be to have Multiple 'Planets' in the Same Orbit, including Asteroid Belt and Gas Giant 'Planets') 'Moon Base' would then just be a 'Colony Base' that only went to 'Planets' in the same orbit. It would be assumed that all those 'Planets' were together in the Battle Screen Area.
First
+ 1 to 'Size' of Planet (The Moon is large and exactly like the planet in Minerals and Environment, when you terraform one, you terraform them both, no stats at all for the Moon and only one of these Per planet ie planet special Colonizable Moon).
Second
The same as Asteroid Bases, Mining/Research Outpost only but they are Not Colonizable like other ones are. (so no ep value but they would have a Mineral and Research level as well as a 'Size').. all planets would probably have one of these moons ..although it could have a 'size' of Zero.
(The Final, and Most Complete and possibly uncomplicated Way to model Moons would be to have Multiple 'Planets' in the Same Orbit, including Asteroid Belt and Gas Giant 'Planets') 'Moon Base' would then just be a 'Colony Base' that only went to 'Planets' in the same orbit. It would be assumed that all those 'Planets' were together in the Battle Screen Area.
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guiguibaah
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More than one moon per planet.
2
That's two
Here's my rationale...
If people would like to go with option 2 - have a 'moon base special' that is built on the planet, allowing the colonising of the moon (which add to your max pop on a planet, maybe +1 or +2 minerals / turn, +1 or +2 energy turn, or +1 / +2 research a turn) you wouldn't want to overdoo it.
A planet with one moon would be somewhat rare, like "hey, that's neat, it's got a moon - I should build a base to increase my production".. But not TOO many to prevent someone from going through a list of 150 planets and clicking on "build moon base".
A planet with two moons would be rare, but it is still somehwat manageable in terms of micromanagement. They would probabyl stick out much more and you'd be able to remember which system had a planet with two moons.
Three moons, then it might get a little excessive..
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Also
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Having a moon is kinda like a small bonus. If every planet had a moon, and multiple moons, then the moon is no longer like a bonus. It becomes more of a necessity that someone has to upgrade.
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Finally, it would be interesting to make FO so that certain specials are only available on moons.. IE: RARE GEMS can only be found on a moon. (Regular GEMS can be found on planets)
Anyhow
That's two
Here's my rationale...
If people would like to go with option 2 - have a 'moon base special' that is built on the planet, allowing the colonising of the moon (which add to your max pop on a planet, maybe +1 or +2 minerals / turn, +1 or +2 energy turn, or +1 / +2 research a turn) you wouldn't want to overdoo it.
A planet with one moon would be somewhat rare, like "hey, that's neat, it's got a moon - I should build a base to increase my production".. But not TOO many to prevent someone from going through a list of 150 planets and clicking on "build moon base".
A planet with two moons would be rare, but it is still somehwat manageable in terms of micromanagement. They would probabyl stick out much more and you'd be able to remember which system had a planet with two moons.
Three moons, then it might get a little excessive..
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Also
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Having a moon is kinda like a small bonus. If every planet had a moon, and multiple moons, then the moon is no longer like a bonus. It becomes more of a necessity that someone has to upgrade.
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Finally, it would be interesting to make FO so that certain specials are only available on moons.. IE: RARE GEMS can only be found on a moon. (Regular GEMS can be found on planets)
Anyhow
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PowerCrazy
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True. But for the sake of arguement I was assuming that it was already a blackhole(singularity).pd wrote:that's a mug's game. with its current mass the sun would never turn into a black hole.If the sun turned into a black hole right now it owuld have the same mass and therefore the same gravity.
Aquitaine is my Hero.... 
Correction : It would never turn into a black hole on its own.pd wrote:that's a mug's game. with its current mass the sun would never turn into a black hole.If the sun turned into a black hole right now it owuld have the same mass and therefore the same gravity.
You can turn a pea into a black hole if you compress it enough.
The COW Project : You have a spy in your midst.
Moons should be done exactly the same as MOO3 except that they are more useful than just being obstacles in space combat. They would give bonuses to population, research and production. I haven't gone searching about any information about Gas Giants, but I thought it was stupid that you could colonize the Gas Giants in MOO3. That is what the moons would be for. The largest moon orbiting the gas giant would be where the primary colony would be and the rest of the moons would act as moons to the primary moon. Unless of course there are going to be gasbags in FO, then they could colonise the gas giant.
Having only one or two moons max per planet is IMHO ridiculous. Take our own solar system as the basis for what possibilities are out there. Earth has one small moon, Mars has two tiny moons and Pluto has a microscopic moon. out of five "rock" planets, three have moons. All of our gas giants have moons, and not just a few. Going in order from Jupiter to Neptune they have 16, 18, 17 and 8 moons. Most of them are small and fairly insignifacant, but Jupiter has two that are larger than our moon and Saturn has one also. Giving the moons sizes, Earths is a 7 and Luna is a 3. That makes Jupiter have two 4s and two 2s, Saturn has a 4 and Neptune has a 2. All the rest of the moons in the system would be 1s or 0.5s.
The highest number of good sized moons is four, but whos to say some other star system out there doesn't have more? I do think that there should be a cap on the nuber of moons a planet can have but one or two is too low, IMO. Four or five would be an appropriate number. There should also be a limit to how big the moon can be. Unlike MOO3 having a moon that is the same size of the planet, (that should be a different random modifier which would be a double planet) the moons in FO should not be able to exeed one half of the planets size. By that, I mean that if planet X's size is 6, it's moon can't be bigger than a 3.
For the double planets, they would act as two separate planets for colonization purposes. You send a colony ship to the first and then you have to send a colony ship to the other one too.
Having only one or two moons max per planet is IMHO ridiculous. Take our own solar system as the basis for what possibilities are out there. Earth has one small moon, Mars has two tiny moons and Pluto has a microscopic moon. out of five "rock" planets, three have moons. All of our gas giants have moons, and not just a few. Going in order from Jupiter to Neptune they have 16, 18, 17 and 8 moons. Most of them are small and fairly insignifacant, but Jupiter has two that are larger than our moon and Saturn has one also. Giving the moons sizes, Earths is a 7 and Luna is a 3. That makes Jupiter have two 4s and two 2s, Saturn has a 4 and Neptune has a 2. All the rest of the moons in the system would be 1s or 0.5s.
The highest number of good sized moons is four, but whos to say some other star system out there doesn't have more? I do think that there should be a cap on the nuber of moons a planet can have but one or two is too low, IMO. Four or five would be an appropriate number. There should also be a limit to how big the moon can be. Unlike MOO3 having a moon that is the same size of the planet, (that should be a different random modifier which would be a double planet) the moons in FO should not be able to exeed one half of the planets size. By that, I mean that if planet X's size is 6, it's moon can't be bigger than a 3.
For the double planets, they would act as two separate planets for colonization purposes. You send a colony ship to the first and then you have to send a colony ship to the other one too.
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Ablaze
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You defiantly have a point, Ranos, it would be realistic to have a very large cap on the number of moons.. if any. However, guiguibaah’s point is also a very valid point and is concerned with game play. Around here a game play argument trumps a realism argument, even if the game play argument is very much weaker then the realism one (and these two are comparable IMO).
Time flies like the wind, fruit flies like bananas.
Perhaps for simplicity moons could be generated, but just displayed in the sidepanel along with the planets? I think there will be no concept of distance within a system, so it makes no difference which object is orbiting which in system view. Perhaps some sort of visual cue that this planet is actually a moon of that other planet, but it's not really necessary.
Of course the moon generation tables would need to be tweaked to make sure you don't get a whole lot of useless junk moons (sol system for instance would have about 30 tiny barren moons that noone would care about, and shouldn't be displayed).
Even simpler is to say that, well, who says that some of those 'planets' we just generated are not moons? We just didn't provide the map of what orbits what, but we've shown you all the interesting objects in the system.
Of course the moon generation tables would need to be tweaked to make sure you don't get a whole lot of useless junk moons (sol system for instance would have about 30 tiny barren moons that noone would care about, and shouldn't be displayed).
Even simpler is to say that, well, who says that some of those 'planets' we just generated are not moons? We just didn't provide the map of what orbits what, but we've shown you all the interesting objects in the system.
The only resonable counter-argument I can provide to not showing what a moon orbits... what about space combat?? Putting a lunar defense base on a moon instead of the main planet could make it like an orbiting death star, if done properly... also, there are other lunar things we could do... lunar space colony, lunar mining colony... lunar theme park... and some moons (if large enough) could support more then one of these as well... (a moon with a mining colony and theme park... hrmmm, mine cart rides anyone??)
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guiguibaah
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Many small moons
For many small moons - don't get me wrong, it would be great if such an idea could be implemented. But looking at the micromanagement side of things (as in, how to prevent a player from scrolling through a list of 150 planets with 80 moons) it oculd be annoying if each one had to have a 'moon base' built on it.
Personally, I didn't like how moo3 handled moons, just because it was assumed that once your colony was established on the planet, it had full access to the moons, as if a magical teleportation device existed.
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My suggestion for the "build colony base" option was more to give the player the opportunity to stake out more territory. Especially in early game (do I build a colony ship... a colony base to another planet, or the cheaper moon base?).
Almost like Biospheres in Moo2 - except you also gain certain bonuses the moon may have.
However, maybe what could be done is have a "colonise all moons" building, where industry works to colonise all the moons at the same time. This way the player doesn't have to go back and forth.
Also, having less moons would make it easier to represent them on animated planet pics (such as pd's).
Finally, there could be a technology that instantly grants all planets instant moon colonies somewhere mid-game so we are not scrolling though a myriad of planets looking for colonies that still aren't built.
I'm just looking at perhaps how things could be made interesting without becoming to automatic (aka moo3).
Fun!
Personally, I didn't like how moo3 handled moons, just because it was assumed that once your colony was established on the planet, it had full access to the moons, as if a magical teleportation device existed.
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My suggestion for the "build colony base" option was more to give the player the opportunity to stake out more territory. Especially in early game (do I build a colony ship... a colony base to another planet, or the cheaper moon base?).
Almost like Biospheres in Moo2 - except you also gain certain bonuses the moon may have.
However, maybe what could be done is have a "colonise all moons" building, where industry works to colonise all the moons at the same time. This way the player doesn't have to go back and forth.
Also, having less moons would make it easier to represent them on animated planet pics (such as pd's).
Finally, there could be a technology that instantly grants all planets instant moon colonies somewhere mid-game so we are not scrolling though a myriad of planets looking for colonies that still aren't built.
I'm just looking at perhaps how things could be made interesting without becoming to automatic (aka moo3).
Fun!
There are three kinds of people in this world - those who can count, and those who can't.
MOO3 didn't use the moons to their full capacity. You did get a population bonus, but I believe that was all. Now I don't know if some kind of region setup is used in FO as in MOO3, but moons should have given more regions to build things in, in which case Roy would have handled building anything on them. As for an instant teleportation thing to get to the moons, it would be the same as regions, the population slowly expands by themselves.