"Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Steve
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"Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#1 Post by Steve »

Can anything be done with these "systems"?
Obviously, they can host battles... and on-ship stuff (regen structure/fuel, etc) can happen.

But, can any buildings or other development go into "Deep Space"?

Just at the moment, I'm wishing I could build a "Gateway to the Void" in a Deep Space location :wink: Which led me to wonder if ANYTHING can be done with these...

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eleazar
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#2 Post by eleazar »

Not currently.
Maybe later.

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Steve
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#3 Post by Steve »

eleazar wrote:Not currently.
Maybe later.
Right. Should I suggest/request elsewhere? Or just wait and see?

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Bigjoe5
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#4 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Steve wrote:
eleazar wrote:Not currently.
Maybe later.
Right. Should I suggest/request elsewhere? Or just wait and see?
Posting a more specific suggestion couldn't hurt...
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Steve
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#5 Post by Steve »

Bigjoe5 wrote:
Steve wrote:
eleazar wrote:Not currently.
Maybe later.
Right. Should I suggest/request elsewhere? Or just wait and see?
Posting a more specific suggestion couldn't hurt...
OK... hrm... How about this:

I'd like to suggest a new ship-type, probably with a few supporting techs. It should need a large hull (maybe... Heavy Asteroid (or larger)?), and it needs to carry an "Outpost" aboard. In a system, it can be converted to "host" any single building of any type normally built on a planet (except a building devoted to resource-extraction). This would let players put a shipyard (and later, an Orbital Drydock) into a strategically-placed system that happens to lack planets; or, as originally-noted, a "Gateway to the Void;" or anything else as players may deem advisable.

It should probably require "Microgravity Manufacturing" and "Robotic Production". It still needs a power-source, so it must go into a system with a star, albeit no planets are needed.

A 2nd-generation ship, requiring the 1st-generation + "Fusion generation" tech, could go into "Empty Space" starlane-junctures with onboard power.

Thoughts?

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Bigjoe5
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#6 Post by Bigjoe5 »

OK. In the future I'd like to see an additional slot size - "Large" for big, rare items. Some ship part like a "Production Module" could go in a large slot, which would allow the ship to be used as a build location. If desired, there could be some restrictions on this effect's activation, such as needing to be in a ship with a star to allocate PP, or needing to have some other "Fusion Generator" ship part.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#7 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Bigjoe5 wrote:I'd like to see an additional slot size - "Large" for big, rare items. Some ship part like a "Production Module" could go in a large slot, which would allow the ship to be used as a build location.
That sort of ship-defining feature could be put into a hull, rather than treated as a part.

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Steve
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#8 Post by Steve »

Bigjoe5 wrote:OK. In the future I'd like to see an additional slot size - "Large" for big, rare items. Some ship part like a "Production Module" could go in a large slot, which would allow the ship to be used as a build location. If desired, there could be some restrictions on this effect's activation, such as needing to be in a ship with a star to allocate PP, or needing to have some other "Fusion Generator" ship part.
I was thinking of the mechanic being rather like a "troop ship" - when those 5 (or however many) troops deploy, the ship is GONE. The "production module" would be something like that, only moreso: in the process of building a planetless Outpost, the starship itself is cannibalized, incorporated into the finished structure. I wouldn't expect to need a new slot-size; certainly the makin's of a non-cryogenic Colony -- settlers, livestock, all their gear, etc -- would be larger.

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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#9 Post by Vezzra »

Steve wrote:...I was thinking of the mechanic being rather like a "troop ship" - when those 5 (or however many) troops deploy, the ship is GONE. The "production module" would be something like that, only moreso: in the process of building a planetless Outpost, the starship itself is cannibalized, incorporated into the finished structure...
So, what you're suggesting is actually something like a "base", as in "large, immobile structure floating in space". This is a concept that is missing in FO until now, but might be an interesting addition (I don't count the immobile hull types "Colony Base" and "Outpost Base" as implementations of that concept). It would allow for things like "space stations" and "starbases" et al.

Introducing this kind of immobile objects that can be build by players of course raises the question how the construction process of these things shall be designed. The simplest approach would be like ships: they can only be build in systems with a spaceyard. This of course would limit what kind of things can be done with these "bases" - it wouldn't be possible to do the things you suggested for example.

Another approach would be what you described: Provide some kind of ship that basically acts as "constructor". This "constructor" ship can be build like any other ship at a spaceyard, moves to the location where the new base should be placed and proceeds with "constructing" the base, which can be done in several ways. In the case you described it would mean to decide what kind of base the final structure should be by selecting the desired building, investing the required PPs, and the "constructer" ship will be consumed in th process.

Designing "bases" this way opens up far more possibilities what can be done with them. I've to admit, I like the idea very much, maybe we should open up a new brainstorming thread for that to discuss some details? What do you think?

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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#10 Post by Vezzra »

Bigjoe5 wrote:OK. In the future I'd like to see an additional slot size - "Large" for big, rare items...
Seconded! One application for "large" slots that immediately comes to my mind: "Colony Pods" and "Oupost Modules". The way these are implemented now, the first thing I do when starting a new game: delete the predefined colony ship design and create another one with the basic small hull - cheaper, hence faster to build. It makes absolutely no sense to use the standard hull for colony ships ATM, that's just a waste of PPs and precious time.

If however you are forced to use a sufficiently "big" hull by requiring these ship parts to be put in "large" slots, you can prevent this kind of "cheat" (putting something like a colony pod, which is assumed to be extremly "big", into the smallest hull size available looks like a "cheat" to me).

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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#11 Post by Vezzra »

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Bigjoe5 wrote:I'd like to see an additional slot size - "Large" for big, rare items. Some ship part like a "Production Module" could go in a large slot, which would allow the ship to be used as a build location.
That sort of ship-defining feature could be put into a hull, rather than treated as a part.
What do you mean exactly? Give the hull the ability to receive "big" ship parts in it's slots or the "production" ability?

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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#12 Post by em3 »

Vezzra wrote:
Geoff the Medio wrote:That sort of ship-defining feature could be put into a hull, rather than treated as a part.
What do you mean exactly? Give the hull the ability to receive "big" ship parts in it's slots or the "production" ability?
More like "Colony Hull", "Deployable Space Station Hull", ...
But I like the idea of using different hulls for colony ships more.
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#13 Post by Vezzra »

em3 wrote:More like "Colony Hull", "Deployable Space Station Hull", ...
But I like the idea of using different hulls for colony ships more.
So do I. I mean, the whole point of the concept of hulls and ship parts is having a limited, manageable amount of hulls that can be very flexibly configured for all different kinds of tasks. The more attributes/abilities you incorporate into the hulls, the more flexibility you've to give up, while increasing the amount of available hull types. And a larger amount of hull types means less manageable for the player.

Therefore I'd prefer to have "Colony Pod" and "Space Station Construction Module" ship parts, which can only mounted on special slots ("large" slot type), that can only be found in certain (sufficiently "large") hulls. Alternatively, if we don't want to introduce more slot types, we could tag "large" ship parts and restrict placment of these parts only to certain hulls.

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Steve
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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#14 Post by Steve »

I'd be reluctant to see a "colony" require a hull-type unavailable at the start of play, so if a "large" hull-type (needed for "large" parts) was needed for a colony, I'd like to see it available up-front. OTOH, I agree that stuffing a colony into the smallest hull seems like a bit of a "cheat"...

One idea: split a "colony" into multiple ship-parts:
- Colonial Equipment
- Colonial Crops & Livestock
- Colonial Personnel
You can deliver a colony with any combination of hulls totaling 3 internal slots...

The idea of moving *people* around then allows one to "artificially" quick-grow a colony by importing people (& foodstuff, if needed) faster than natural population-growth & the built-in "trade" abstraction. If desired, one could introduce "overpopulation," one way of dealing with which would be to export the surplus population (no slight intended to the good Mr. Dickens).

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Re: "Deep Space" - empty starlane junctures

#15 Post by Bigjoe5 »

It used to be that the standard hull was the smallest hull with internal slots; since having even 1 internal slot allows you to do cool special stuff that ships without such slots can't do, it makes sense that not every hull gets one. I wouldn't mind going back to that. That doesn't remove the need for large slots, though. It seems wrong that a laser takes the same amount of space as a [edit]Stellar Converter[/edit], and I'm not at all a fan of requiring multiple parts to get the effect of what is conceptually a single "part".
Last edited by Bigjoe5 on Thu May 24, 2012 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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