Empire meters

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

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Zireael
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Empire meters

#1 Post by Zireael »

My suggestions for empire meters are as follows:

1) Biological Alteration - +1 point for researching Symbiotic Biology, +2 for researching Xenological Genetics; +3 for researching Xenological Hybridization, +10 for researching Cyborgs; +50 for researching Pure Energy Metabolism

2) Environment Modification - +1 point for researching Terraforming, +2 points for researching Remote Terraforming; +5 points for researching Artificial Heavenly Bodies
+10 points for each Terraforming built; +20 points for an Artificial Planet built; +20 points for an Artificial Moon built; +500 points for a Gaian planet owned;

3) Mechanization - +1 point for researching Fusion Generation, +2 points for researching Orbital Generation, +5 points for researching for Solar Orbital Generation; +1 point for researching Robotic Production; +2 points for researching Industrial Centers; +4 points for researching Greater Industrial Center; +10 points for researching Supreme Industrial Center; +5 points for researching Semi-Autonomous Exobots; +5 points for researching Asteroid Mining; +10 points for researching Semi-Autonomous Exobots; +10 points for researching Sentient Automation; +5 points for researching Singularity Generation
+5 points for Solar Orbital Generator built; +10 point for a Gas Giant Generator built; +15 points for a Exobot Colony Ship built;
+50 points for a planet inhabited by the Exobots

4) Militarism - +1 point for a Mk I ship built, +4 for a Mk IV, +5 for a Mk V, +6 for a Mk IV, +5 for a Robotic I built;
+10 points for researching Plasma Cannon I; +20 points for researching Plasma Cannon II, +30 points for researching Plasma Cannon III, +40 points for researching Plasma Cannon IV; +50 points for researching Plasma Cannon V; +100 points for researching Death Ray I, +150 points for researching Death Ray II, +200 points for researching Death Ray III, +250 points for researching Death Ray IV, +300 points for researching Death Ray V


5) Social Control - none, will wait until trade and happiness are implemented.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Empire meters

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio »

I think most of those meters need to be based on things other than techs that are researched (or at least techs known, if there is a distinction). The idea is to have a measure of how much of something an empire is or is doing, and that this be changeable by players. Researching a tech can't be undone, and doesn't in of itself mean the empire is doing anything with that technology.

Zireael
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Re: Empire meters

#3 Post by Zireael »

It was just a suggestion. If we applied the points for the stuff built I suggested (ships, terraforming, artificial planet, exobots), would it work? Only the Biological Alteration would be 0.0 still, since there's nothing buildable which affects it.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Empire meters

#4 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Zireael wrote:...would it work?
It would be able to calculate a value for meters, I suppose, but that's not really the issue to worry about.

One problem is the references to particular ship designs. That's not a good criteria because, at the least, players can make new ship designs that wouldn't be recognized. Instead, reference parts and hulls. Building types are OK to reference, as those don't have parts that make them up.

Also, don't bother specifying particular point values for particular things... anything more than "small", "medium", and "large" boosts to a meter aren't meaningful at this stage.

Likely the meters should have some sort of limited range, like 0 to 100, so a system with diminishing returns for multiple instances of doing something might be better as well.

Also, it would be useful to suggest new empire meters or rearrangements of the existing meters; there's nothing particularly well thought out about the existing ones. The basic idea is to have ratings of various properties of empires that a species might like or dislike, based on what an empire is or what the empire does, generally skewing towards things that players can control intentionally. For right now, the number of various things that an empire has control of are useful and easy to implement with ValueRef statistics, though feel free to suggest other actions empires might take that could be included / considered.

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eleazar
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Re: Empire meters

#5 Post by eleazar »

Geoff the Medio wrote:Likely the meters should have some sort of limited range, like 0 to 100, so a system with diminishing returns for multiple instances of doing something might be better as well.

Also, it would be useful to suggest new empire meters or rearrangements of the existing meters; there's nothing particularly well thought out about the existing ones. The basic idea is to have ratings of various properties of empires that a species might like or dislike, based on what an empire is or what the empire does, generally skewing towards things that players can control intentionally. For right now, the number of various things that an empire has control of are useful and easy to implement with ValueRef statistics, though feel free to suggest other actions empires might take that could be included / considered.
As i said at the end of the simulating citizens discussion, i strongly question weather this kind of mechanic is a good idea.

Even if it was, it is probably counterproductive to try to figure it out now when the foundation that this would need to build on happiness/allegiance/loyalty, whatever, hasn't been implemented.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Empire meters

#6 Post by Geoff the Medio »

eleazar wrote:...i strongly question weather this kind of mechanic is a good idea.
Even if they aren't used for determining species' opinions of empires or something similar, having ratings of empires of this sort might be just interesting / fun to have to display for players, if only to compare different empires or display on a statistics screen. They would also provide something else to base tech or building effect strengths on, which could be useful.

I don't see how figuring out potential ratings and how to calculate them not is counterproductive though... At worst it's unproductive speculation?

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qsswin
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Re: Empire meters

#7 Post by qsswin »

Would empire meters have any other in-game effect besides influencing happiness?
Biological Alteration, Mechanization, and Militarism obviously could influence max pop, infrastructure/production, and troops/defenses, respectively, in an empire's colonies. Environment Modification could make terraforming easier, maybe?

Perhaps having this sort of self-reinforcing cycle in the empire meters (you get better at something, your meter goes up, it makes you get better at that thing, etc.) is bad, but it could also be an interesting alternative to research in those fields for production-based empires.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Empire meters

#8 Post by Geoff the Medio »

qsswin wrote:Would empire meters have any other in-game effect besides influencing happiness?
Detection Strength is an empire meter, and already has a non-happiness-related in-game effect.

Zireael
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Re: Empire meters

#9 Post by Zireael »

Will the empire meters be implemented or was the idea abandoned?

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Krikkitone
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Re: Empire meters

#10 Post by Krikkitone »

I like the idea for Biological/Environmental Modification/Automation-mechanization....

The key point(as mentioned) to make those interesting is allowing player choice to be involved...so an Empire could focus on one of those 3. but not all 3.. each would have benefits as a way of allowing you to exploit more and more territory.

Environmental modification=>resources needed EP changes
Biological Modification=>population survives EPs better over time
Automation=>design "population" for specific EPs

There would need to be differences... but even just having non overlapping effects would be good (if you are already good at terraforming, a biomodification tech doesn't help you expand territory... although it might have some other benefits)

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