Expanding wheel of habitability

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Zireael
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Expanding wheel of habitability

#1 Post by Zireael »

I've returned to FreeOrion after playing some games in Birth of the Empires.

The galaxy map of FreeOrion is much superior to the BotE map. Also, all races in BotE colonize the same...
BotE, however, has one nice feature: they borrowed the planet classification from Star Trek.

As seen here, they have 30 different graphics for every one of 20 different planet classes, totalling 600 different graphics.

20 planet classes would also make it possible to introduce more playable races. Not to mention 20 is not 8, and personally, 8 planet types in FO are a little boring after having played the game so many times.

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#2 Post by AndrewW »

Zireael wrote:As seen here, they have 30 different graphics for every one of 20 different planet classes, totalling 600 different graphics.
That would require someone to design all those graphics.
Zireael wrote:20 planet classes would also make it possible to introduce more playable races. Not to mention 20 is not 8, and personally, 8 planet types in FO are a little boring after having played the game so many times.
There may only be so many planet types, but they also have specials which makes the possible combinations considerably more.

Zireael
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#3 Post by Zireael »

The 20 graphics thing was just an example.

There are not that many specials. I have played FreeOrion for a long time and I'm sorry to say, it gets boring.

The main advantage it has over BotE is the fact that it is clearer - if not for that, I'd simply switch to BotE.

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#4 Post by Zireael »

Hmm. How do I go about modding the wheel of habitability? Replacing "inferno" with "class A" or "class B" or "class C" in stringtables is pretty easy, but I don't see a habitability wheel anywhere in the files...

I wouldn't mind having the same graphics for similar classes, even. Just a larger number of planet classes.

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Bigjoe5
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#5 Post by Bigjoe5 »

Zireael wrote:The main advantage it has over BotE is the fact that it is clearer - if not for that, I'd simply switch to BotE.
Have you considered that FO's simplicity is part of what makes it clearer, and that having more planet types is likely to detract from that?
Warning: Antarans in dimensional portal are closer than they appear.

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eleazar
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#6 Post by eleazar »

Zireael wrote:Hmm. How do I go about modding the wheel of habitability? Replacing "inferno" with "class A" or "class B" or "class C" in stringtables is pretty easy, but I don't see a habitability wheel anywhere in the files...
Currently the wheel is mostly hardcoded, besides the names. Yeah it would be nice if it was scriptable, but it's not a priority.

I won't claim 9 is the ultimate, perfect number of planet types, and it must never claim. However BoE doesn't seem like something to emulate. They have so many planet types, and so many variant graphics, that i suspect you nearly have to memorize them all to tell at a glance what it what. I.E. there's no obvious distinction between a class B and a Class E planet, etc. Part of that is because the graphics are low quality and probably cobbled together from many sources, but it would be quite challenging to make 20 visually distinctive types of planets without being silly (zebra stripes, checks, etc.)

Zireael wrote:There are not that many specials. I have played FreeOrion for a long time and I'm sorry to say, it gets boring.
I'd blame that on the many major features we haven't added yet, instead of the low number of planet types.

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#7 Post by Zireael »

Maybe not 20 then, but more than 9 would be nice...

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#8 Post by Zireael »

On second thought, I would add variable, demon and planetoid planet types.

Having gas giants differ in size is not a bad idea, either.

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eleazar
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#9 Post by eleazar »

One or two sentences with not explanation or context doesn't advance your idea. In fact it probably hurts it.

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Krikkitone
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#10 Post by Krikkitone »

Zireael wrote:On second thought, I would add variable, demon and planetoid planet types.

Having gas giants differ in size is not a bad idea, either.
Asteroid belts are already in (could be renamed planetoid to represent things like Pluto and the other dwarf planets in the KB)

"Variable" would be a special like gaia (depending on how variable)

?Demon?.. how would that be anything other than an Inferno, or Radiated, or Barren, etc. world. (or a special on any world like "haunted" or "transdimensional rift")

While there is no reason that 9= perfect... more=/= better

In general, I'd say a new system or a new category should
1. be intuitive in its effects (EP currently means ... good for specific species, and close to specific other EPs)
2. not overlap (we don't have a "subterranean EP" because you can have "caverns" on multiple different EPs)

If we start getting past 12 I seriously doubt someone would be able to know if a forest world was closer to a plains world, a jungle world, or a grassland world, etc.... or to easily remember what a species does better on.

[I do like different gas giant sizes... having them give different effects in terms of investment+output... large GG take more investment but give more output]

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#11 Post by Zireael »

Krikkitone - I think a Gaia-like special is a good idea for variable.

Demon planets would be ones that are uninhabitable for everyone, but could have a native species. Alternately, they'd require a special variant of terraforming to be habitable.

I thought of planetoids because of Pluto and similar celestial bodies, indeed.

Plains or grassland are not bad ideas either.

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#12 Post by AndrewW »

Zireael wrote:Demon planets would be ones that are uninhabitable for everyone, but could have a native species. Alternately, they'd require a special variant of terraforming to be habitable.
Would need a good reason for someone to research a special technology just to be able to make a specific world type inhabitable.

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Krikkitone
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#13 Post by Krikkitone »

Zireael wrote:Krikkitone - I think a Gaia-like special is a good idea for variable.

Demon planets would be ones that are uninhabitable for everyone, but could have a native species. Alternately, they'd require a special variant of terraforming to be habitable.

I thought of planetoids because of Pluto and similar celestial bodies, indeed.

Plains or grassland are not bad ideas either.
(Plains, grassland planets= Very bad ideas from any feeling of "planets"..it does fit the space opera a bit. but that would be better as a special, that gives growth bonuses to the right species)

I see what you are saying about "Demon" planets... essentially an EP that is very rare and not on the Terraforming wheel

perhaps "Exotic (Species)" as a Special

So A species withe the "Exotic" EP can only survive on planets with the "Exotic (Species)" Special.... and No Other species can survive there.

It wouldn't be a main position on the EP though. It would be say "Exotic Degrath" Special on a Desert world.
(and Degrath would have the Exotic pick.. locking them onto their HW, until they developed the Terraforming tech to pollute other worlds)


I think sticking with 7-12 EP types (for basic species habitability) that are all about equally common is best. adding specials makes it better.

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eleazar
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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#14 Post by eleazar »

Zireael wrote:I thought of planetoids because of Pluto and similar celestial bodies, indeed..
That's a size not a type. FO already has size.

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Re: Expanding wheel of habitability

#15 Post by unjashfan »

I'd blame that on the many major features we haven't added yet, instead of the low number of planet types.
Agreed. Zireael mentioned that there are few specials in the game. Perhaps instead of adding more content, we could expand on stuff that's already in the game. Here's one idea inspired by current exoplanet search efforts: We now know there are a huge variety of planets like hot Jupiters, eccentric Jupiters, and their Neptune-sized counterparts. How about adding gas giant only specials and/or species? These might produce stuff that planets wouldn't usually be able to produce, or have certain special effects that affect the rest of the planets in the system. Maybe something like: Eccentric Jupiter - This planet has an eccentric orbit around its star. Its strong gravitational influence disrupts the orbits of the planets in the same system. Planets in the same system will have infrastructure reduced by 10 and supply reduced by 1. Something like this might also encourage players to use planetary starlane drive more often.

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