Impaler wrote:Lets deside on the points that we agree on first so we can all brainstorm fromthe same page.
1 Shipyards are System Level improvments and not attached to any Planet in the system
2 Shipyards are intended to be rare and expensive, players likely have shipyards in only a handfull of their systems.
3 Shipyards need to be improved/expanded inorder to produce realy big capital ships making these types of shipyard even rarer
4 Production Points that have been alocated towards Shipbuilding get pooled across the Empire and distributed based on Queue Priority to all Shipyards (possibly some exceptions for Blockading)
1. "Shipyards are System Level improvements" -I agree completely
"not attached to any Planet in the system" - Gotta go with Drek on this one, I'd like to see one planet needing to build a (system exclusive) 'Shipyard support' building (as part of the initial shipyard build), which would give a definitive 'anchor point' for the shipyard, for combat reasons, and also maybe to allow us to link shipyard capacity with some detail of the planet should we so choose (several interesting ideas have been suggested on previous threads) )
2. I agree completely, as I presume does everyone else except Drek, who seems to be completely set on a system designed to ensure that players only have one shipyard operational at a time - one as close to their current opponent as possible.
3. I agree with the sentiment (shipyards must have a series on investments to keep them fully capable of building on the scale of the empire's capabilities).
I'd personally like to see shipyards limited in many ways, by PP /turn spendable there, by maximum number of hulls buildable simultaneously (num. of 'slips'), by maximum hull size and by max tech level (or a more convenient proxy for this like PP/hull).
I can see that 3 separate directions to develop a shipyard in (slips, max size, ship technical complexity) is quite likely to be rejected by most people as way too complicated, I just happen to find ship design, fleet construction and deployment a fun part of the game - so I thought I'd mention the options.
As a bare minimum we should have pp/turn spend limits which can be increased with investment.
4. "Production Points that have been alocated towards Shipbuilding get pooled across the Empire and distributed based on (global)
Queue Priority to all Shipyards (possibly some exceptions for Blockading)"
Can't see what Drek is complaining about on point four, since it's exactly what he want as well as what we want. The sticking point ought to be point 3, i.e. the idea of limiting the output of shipyards in any way,Since if the output of a shipyard is limited, then you may have a project at
maybe the problem is with Drek's commet
A project high on the local queue might not receive production points it it's low on the global queue
Since I've not yet heard anyone in favour of limited capacity shipyards (Including me way back on the build queue design thread) suggest anything other than the local queues being merely a filtered section of the global queue, i.e. a system essentially as described by Impaler, this situation can't possibly arise. All the 'local queues' as you describe them would be would be the global queue written out ommiting anything not scheduled to build at that location.[/quote]
Drek wrote:Here's the deal: if I move a ship up in the top of the global queue, it should build. But if that ship takes up all the capacity in the shipyard, then the #2 ship on the global queue won't be building if it's located at the same shipyard. Counter-intuitively, the #3 ship might be building, if it's assigned to another shipyard, or the first available shipyard.
I just don't see this as a problem.
I'm pretty confident both you, I and everyone else playing the game will be able to look at a list of items, and see that item #2 says 'waiting to build, shipyard capacity fully utilized" or has a little graphic icon to that effect, or has 'available capacity =0' writen by it , or any of a hundred other ways of showing the same thing, and work out that that's why item #3 is building and item #2 not. Just as when I look at the list and see item #5 is stalled and has 'system blockaded' writen next to it, or item # 6 is stalled and has 'system in revolt' or 'Cannot build here, no megafarm complex' I'll work out there is a problem, and what to do to fix it.
So where does that leave us:
1a) Shipyards are System Level improvments
2) Shipyards are intended to be rare and expensive, players likely have shipyards in only a handfull of their systems.
4) Production Points that have been alocated towards Shipbuilding get pooled across the Empire and distributed based on Global Queue Priority to the first(all) Shipyard(s) (brackets apply if limits apply to shipyards).
1b) the shipyard in a system must (generally, leaving aside weird stuff) be strongly associated with a particular planet.
3) Shipyards need to be improved/expanded inorder to produce (insert prefered form of limitation) making these types of shipyard even rarer.
and the biggy
5) Shipyards must at least be limited in terms of an improveable limit on the PP spent at a particular shipyard per turn.