NO they don't. I keep saying and you keep ignoring the fact that if refining a weapon is equal to researching a new weapon, then what is the point of researching a new weapon? Refinements are merely meant to make an existing weapon more powerful so that it is more usable in later combat. If I build a ship at the start of the game, it will be more cost effective to research a few refinements on the ship and to refit the ship itself than it will be to overhaul the ship with the next weapon in the tech tree. This is the point of refining, not making the next weapon pointless because you can just refine the laser.utilae wrote:They need to be equally viable to a player, if players realise that normal research of weapons is way better than refinements could ever be, then no one will ever go for refinements. Both mainstream research and refonments need to be balanced enough to lure players into research and refinements at an equal frequency. So we need to think of some advantages and disadvantages for both mainstream researched weapons and refined weapons, that make them equally useful and usable in the game.
If researching a refinement is cheap, people will do it even if it won't matter by the time they reach the new weapon. If they are equal, no one will research the new weapon. See my point?
Yes they may, but the 5 cost you save from using laser Mk1 and Laser Mk6 is not going to be that important. If you weren't able to build the big ships by the time you had doomstars available, then you need to rethink your strategy. There were plenty of industrial upgrades available to make your industrial capacity much stronger. Build those and you can build the big ships.utilae wrote:Er, such situations may make or break a game. Plus there have been many times in Moo2 that I have had to wait too long for even the cheapest ships, so unless I was an industry powerhouse, I wouldn't be able to build a doomstar full of 50 plasma cannons, lol.
To add to that, FO's industrial system will not work like MOO2's. Empire based industry instead of planetary based. All you have to do is keep your industrial planets built up with industry and you'll be fine.
That depends on how the upgrading is done. There are three ways.utilae wrote:Refinements is taking an applied tech, like lasers and advancing it in levels, making it better, etc. And when a laser is refined, it is like reserearching an entirely new weapon, so it would not automatically upgrade your ships lasers to refined lasers. You would have to refit for that.
1) Refits happen automatically.
2) The player must click on an "Refit" button.
3) The player must order there ships back to the shipyards to be refitted.
I prefer the second one myself since it doesn't require a lot of microing like 3 would but doesn't force you to spend $$ to upgrade when you don't want to like 1 would.
I hope you don't think I am advocating that refinements be equal to the new tech because you cut my post off a little short there. This is what I said:noelte wrote:Note, there is a difference between refinements and new techs. refinements should only be done a few steps, say from lvl 1 to lvl 5. New weapons techs would lead to more powerful weapons. I guess ref is cheaper than research new once, but at the drawback, that you can not refine for ever.utilae wrote:Ranos wrote:If researching refinements "might be as effective" or "should be equal to" researching a new weapon, ...
They need to be equally viable to a player, ...
[quote="Ranos]If researching refinements "might be as effective" or "should be equal to" researching a new weapon, then what's the point? Why not just put lasers in the game, save on loads of techs and just refine the hell out of the lasers? If a Laser Mk10 does 20 damage, then the next weapon in line should do 40 for less than double the space.[/quote]
See the first part of this post for any clarification on the above quote.
Okay, I see what you were saying. I was in no way intending that big stronger should be the only way to go. I guess I got bogged down in my own way of playing to try to make my point about the whole laser level should be selectable when making a ship thing.