Annexation feedback

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drkosy
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Re: Annexation feedback

#46 Post by drkosy »

Ophiuchus wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 1:23 pm also which revision is your build on? maybe there were fixes since then?
I use build 2024-04-28, well nearly 3 weeks old. Man time is running...
Ophiuchus wrote: Sat May 18, 2024 1:23 pm check first if there are any 'AnnexOrder' entries in the log file for that turn, the AnnexOrder execution / ::Check has quite thorough logging.
There is no AnnexOrder in any of the relevant log files.

I attached the save file. Tomorrow I could build the recent version and try again.
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Ophiuchus
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Re: Annexation feedback

#47 Post by Ophiuchus »

drkosy wrote: Sun May 19, 2024 8:34 pm I attached the save file. Tomorrow I could build the recent version and try again.
that won't be necessary. i opened the save file with a current build and could annex Pet Asteroids (1944) and could not annex Pet I (1936).

Code: Select all

freeoriond.log:OBJ_PLANET 1936: Pet I  at: Pet owner: Governance created on turn: -32768 specials:   Meters: TargetPopulation: Cur: 4.00 Init: 4.00  TargetIndustry: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  TargetResearch: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  TargetInfluence: Cur: 0.04 Init: 0.04  TargetConstruction: Cur: 15.0 Init: 15.0  TargetHappiness: Cur: -0.50 Init: -0.50  MaxShield: Cur: 328.0 Init: 328.0  MaxDefense: Cur: 120.0 Init: 120.0  MaxSupply: Cur: 3.00 Init: 3.00  MaxStockpile: Cur: 0.08 Init: 0.08  MaxTroops: Cur: 32.4 Init: 32.4  Population: Cur: 4.00 Init: 4.00  Industry: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  Research: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  Influence: Cur: 0.04 Init: 0.04  Construction: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  Happiness: Cur: -1.50 Init: -1.50  Shield: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  Defense: Cur: 0.00 Init: 0.00  Supply: Cur: 3.00 Init: 3.00  Stockpile: Cur: 0.08 Init: 0.08  Troops: Cur: 29.7 Init: 29.7  RebelTroops: Cur: 0.67 Init: 0.67  Stealth: Cur: 5.00 Init: 5.00  Detection: Cur: 60.0 Init: 60.0   species: SP_EAXAW   focus: FOCUS_PROTECTION last changed on turn: 322 type: PT_SWAMP original type: PT_SWAMP size: SZ_SMALL rot period: 0.832646 axis tilt: 42.359550 buildings: 55425, 56455, 57870 annexed on turn: -65535 colonized on turn: 285 conquered on turn: -65535 owner before being conquered: -1 last invaded by: -1 last colonized by: 6 last annexed by: -1 last attacked on turn: 322
stability might well be the problem. starting form turn 324 (stability 4.5) I could successfully annex Pet I,. On turn 323 (stability 1.5) i could not annex it.

please open an issue. I think annexing should be fine with low stability. And if we do not want that at least the UI should show it.

Still do not know where this check could be. Any ideas o0eg or geoff? I could also not see anything in the logs, so the AnnexOrder is probably never executed. Or the error log statements are not working. Because it sais ' OrderSet::ApplyOrders() successfully executed 1 orders, skipped 0 already executed orders, and tried but failed to execute 0 orders' in both for successful annexation and for unsuccessful annexation
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Oberlus
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Re: Annexation feedback

#48 Post by Oberlus »

I would like that negative stability makes the planet cheaper to annex.

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drkosy
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Re: Annexation feedback

#49 Post by drkosy »

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 11:50 am please open an issue. I think annexing should be fine with low stability.
Done: Issue #4947 (Annexation don't work with low stability)

Ophiuchus wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 11:50 am stability might well be the problem. starting form turn 324 (stability 4.5) I could successfully annex Pet I,. On turn 323 (stability 1.5) i could not annex it.
That one is strange. I hat a similar issue a lot turns later with fluver. The AI didn't change to protection focus so I just waited for the colony to became independent by rebells. One turn later I could annex the colony. I am pretty sure the stability was zero, maybe 1 but not more. Maybe that issue only occurs for enemy empires.

Oberlus wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 1:55 pm I would like that negative stability makes the planet cheaper to annex.
Well the shown cost was extremely cheap. Well it was low pop and low stability but I think it shouldn't be even cheaper. I mean with a positive opinion you could push the cost further. I really would love to see more possibilities to raise opinion that making annexation cheaper for negative stability.
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Oberlus
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Re: Annexation feedback

#50 Post by Oberlus »

Yes, I didn't mean extremely cheap, just cheaper than with positive stability, just a small modifier, if that is not the case already.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Annexation feedback

#51 Post by Geoff the Medio »

Planet stability affects annexation cost with the same formula regardless of whether it's above or below zero.

Currently, if a planet has more than one empire or rebel troops on it, annexation is blocked. I can add that to the species default annexation condition so it shows up in the UI popup and button as a blocker.

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drkosy
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Re: Annexation feedback

#52 Post by drkosy »

The question is: should that be the case. I mean, it definitely should be part or the UI but I don't really know if rebels should block annexing.

I mean, you could see that IP cost for annexing as pay off to the rebels, or you could say: with annexing there is no reason for rebels anymore. On the other side, why should rebels care for that annexation thing. What ever I thing colonies with rebels on it should be annexable.
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Ophiuchus
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Re: Annexation feedback

#53 Post by Ophiuchus »

drkosy wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 7:41 pm The question is: should that be the case. I mean, it definitely should be part or the UI but I don't really know if rebels should block annexing.

I mean, you could see that IP cost for annexing as pay off to the rebels, or you could say: with annexing there is no reason for rebels anymore. On the other side, why should rebels care for that annexation thing. What ever I thing colonies with rebels on it should be annexable.
geoff pointed me to the backend code with "a planet with ground combat can't be annexed. This includes combat with rebels.".

invasion, annexation and gifting is happening in this order. invasion returns a list of all planets under invasion, the code prevents annexation and gifting currently for such planets.

This certainly makes sense to stop last-ditch gifting. Especially when to prevent gifting a rebellious planet away.

May be it was also introduced to prevent strange issues with timing or interaction between those actions.

Personally I would prefer if annexation would only fail in case of successful invasions, not just if ground battle happened (it may suffice to check for ownership change).

side question when no ground combat happens: what happens if empire A switches from peace to war. Is it able to annex the same turn or not?
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BlueAward
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Re: Annexation feedback

#54 Post by BlueAward »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 1:55 pm
This certainly makes sense to stop last-ditch gifting. Especially when to prevent gifting a rebellious planet away.

May be it was also introduced to prevent strange issues with timing or interaction between those actions.
in MP22 I issued invasion order on Endhu's planet, same turn he issued order to gift it to allied Daybreak (to which I was at peace with, forced by the scenario we were playing). I ended up invading planet and then gifting it against my will to Daybreak, cause the gift order stuck. So yeah. That would be the fix for that - prevent gifting of invaded planets

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Re: Annexation feedback

#55 Post by Ophiuchus »

so SOTA list of counters for annexation
  • denying supply to the planet
  • and making the cost high by increasing species' opinion of your empire,population,stability at the planet on one hand and building buildings on the other.; so researching population tech, cheap buildings
  • keep your planet rebellious
BlueAward wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 2:30 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 1:55 pm
This certainly makes sense to stop last-ditch gifting. Especially when to prevent gifting a rebellious planet away.

May be it was also introduced to prevent strange issues with timing or interaction between those actions.
in MP22 I issued invasion order on Endhu's planet, same turn he issued order to gift it to allied Daybreak (to which I was at peace with, forced by the scenario we were playing). I ended up invading planet and then gifting it against my will to Daybreak, cause the gift order stuck. So yeah. That would be the fix for that - prevent gifting of invaded planets
ah, yes.

oh. one thing; not sure/have to check back with code: if this is the fix for gifting-on-invasion, it could mean that the bug still exists for gifting-on-annexation

for preventing successfully invaded planets:
another possible implementation would be: i think the orders know issued them. Executing such orders should check if the current owner is the issuing owner. (That is of course, if the invasion changes the owner immediately. If it is delayed this wont work)

still i am fine with this implementation for gifting (prevent gifting if there is ground battle).

just for annexation we should do something different i think. Different from invasion, annexation is only possible for the empire supplying the planet last turn (and the backend relies on having only one empire being able to issue such orders; having multiple empires with annexation orders would have races and other weird effects.).

anyone opposed to that? or should we do a poll?
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drkosy
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Re: Annexation feedback

#56 Post by drkosy »

Ophiuchus wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 1:55 pm Personally I would prefer if annexation would only fail in case of successful invasions, not just if ground battle happened (it may suffice to check for ownership change).
That check should be already included. You can't annex new colonies or colonies that changed owner for one turn. That is correctly shown in the UI. If one planet becomes independent, you can't annex it the next turn. You have to wait one more turn.
Annexation happens after invasion so that check should prevent that a colony is invaded and afterwards annexed.
Ophiuchus wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:18 pm just for annexation we should do something different i think.
As I said before, I would love to be able to annex planets with rebels on it. Don't know if a poll is necessary.
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Re: Annexation feedback

#57 Post by Oberlus »

drkosy wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 7:52 pm
Ophiuchus wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 3:18 pm just for annexation we should do something different i think.
As I said before, I would love to be able to annex planets with rebels on it. Don't know if a poll is necessary.
I guess it is a must. Otherwise, one could have some rebels on their planets, thanks to low stability, and be never annexable.

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LienRag
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Re: Annexation feedback

#58 Post by LienRag »

Indeed.
It makes no sense balance-wise nor fluff-wise to prevent rebellious planets from being annexed.

This said, remember that I find the whole annexation mechanism lame and that I proposed another and imho way better earlier.

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Re: Annexation feedback

#59 Post by Oberlus »

LienRag wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 11:26 am This said, remember that I find the whole annexation mechanism lame and that I proposed another and imho way better earlier.
I remember you usually disagree with other's proposals and have your own proposals. But I don't remember specifically what you proposed about this. Since you are pointing it out, looks like you want it to be taken into account again, and for that a link could come handy instead of just "remember blah blah".

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Re: Annexation feedback

#60 Post by Geoff the Medio »

LienRag wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 11:26 amIt makes no sense balance-wise nor fluff-wise to prevent rebellious planets from being annexed.
The "fluff" explanation would/could be that annexation is a sort of political arrangement adjustment that can't really be accomplished while there is ongoing presence of ground troops fighting on a planet. Doesn't have to work that way, but it's not unexplainable if it does.

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