Mongoose Music

Samples of sound/music, ideas or suggestions related to the development of audio assets for FreeOrion.
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StratCaster
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#76 Post by StratCaster » Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:24 am

Mongoose, I like the additions you made to the end of Warhorn Extreme! (which I do not know what that refers to...)

If I had a second of freetime, I'd contribute... (I will at some point)

sounds good though...

....back to the grind....
"The mighty warships of the Vl'Hurg Empire dived screaming upon the unknowing Earth, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog." -Hitchhikers Guide

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LithiumMongoose
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#77 Post by LithiumMongoose » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:55 am

Hey Strat, nice to see you're still around. :) Yeah I had just gotten started working on the new section after the repeat of yours, but threw it up anyway since I was posting the other file.

Notice the little intro I added to your section, and the slightly changed arpeggio string line therein? I thought they were nice touches...

What did you think of how it sounds on my synths?

Think it loses anything having "exact" timing values on all the notes now? Since I finally finished transcribing the rough midi file and all. :)

As for the title reference...
http://www.scifi.com/stargate/episodes/ ... isode.html

-

Aaaaaand while I'm at it, writing on the forum I mean, I may as well post another file for you guys to chew on... This one is kinda accidental, I was playing around with all the synths on the Roland I haven't even touched yet, and using a few of the files in my "Junk" folder to do it, and... you remember Living Crystal, right? :p

We Eat Crystals For Breakfast v2 -- Name change to go with the different course this track has taken. It's pretty short and unremarkable from a technical standpoint, but when looping endlessly, surprisingly addictive. At least that's what I thought. Let me know if you think it should be louder.

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pd
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#78 Post by pd » Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:33 am

t's pretty short and unremarkable from a technical standpoint, but when looping endlessly, surprisingly addictive.
i must agree - this sounds pretty good and truely is addictive.
sadly, it doesn't loop seamlessly.

i'm not quite sure how it fits freeorion, maybe as a combat theme?

i would definitely like to hear more of this kind from you ;)

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Geoff the Medio
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#79 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:47 pm

For We Eat Crystals For Breakfast v2.ogg,

Have you considered pitch bending between notes at the end ( starting around 1:38 )?

Also at the end especially, and more so throughout, some more minor or unexpected notes in the main choir line. Starting from 1:38, now you go:

D E F E C Bb A D

but maybe try some altered tones for a more exotic feel:

D Eb F E C# Bb A D

or

D Eb C B C# C G# A D

Unexpected semitones sound good with pitch bends and choirs, I find...

Throughout, the prominent beat needs either to be mixed down slightly IMO, or have some variation or something, perhaps filling in the gap in the patten... it's just a bit awkward now... which might be what you were going for, but gets a bit to repetative for me...

I'd also like to hear more of the "doo dah dah" type thing starting on the offbeat of beat 1 of every other bar near the start... (if you know what I mean...)

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LithiumMongoose
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#80 Post by LithiumMongoose » Mon May 30, 2005 4:18 pm

New file for you guys to chew on. For some reason it's more fun to keep writing new stuff than trying to update old stuff with people's feedback in mind, but rest assured I'll be doing that too... eventually... damnit...

Starlight Requiem v1 -- Okay so not me at my most creative title-wise, but it'll do. Second attempt at a galaxy background track. Probably not as good as AI, and Geoff didn't like the brief full rests in various places (though I disagree), and nothing I do will ever sound as good as Gui's tracks, but here it is anyway. :)

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#81 Post by StratCaster » Tue May 31, 2005 5:39 am

I agree as well, the full measure rests are a bit awkward. Not musically, its just a sequencing thing or the patch sound.

At 1:20 something and 6:20 something, the choir voices sound weird and cut off, but I know its just the patch. Same with the strings. If you had 80 live string players and a full choir it wouldn't sound that way. They would perform it with a feeling which needs to be simulated with controllers...expression, mod, volume etc... however those patches are very limiting.

Also the harmony is a little thin, but other than that I don't mind the rests. Silence is music too!

I like the overall mood of the piece. And I like the main melody, its cool. I'd like to hear it with some better samples or patches. With a piece as intimate as only having two voices the computerness or sequencerness (are those words?) really stands out. It sounds very much like mouse-clicked notes input to a sequencer and just played. It sounds dead. I wouldn't fret over the instruments sounds as much and just try to get good sequencing & arrangments down. That's really the important stuff. Patches and/or Samples can always be changed.

Hey - Crystals for Breakfast is cool! and I like the name...
"The mighty warships of the Vl'Hurg Empire dived screaming upon the unknowing Earth, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog." -Hitchhikers Guide

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LithiumMongoose
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#82 Post by LithiumMongoose » Sun Jul 03, 2005 1:06 pm

Starlight Requiem v2 -- Major changes.

First, the full measure rests have all been removed or filled in. They were really double-time full rests before, aka half measure rests, which is probably why it felt awkward. I still liked it that way musically but, after much soul searching, ultimately had to concede (in agreement with Geoff) that game background music should pretty much never go completely silent like that.

Second, added a 4th line. I think you'll find it helps. (There's actually also a 5th, for a few timpani hits in the new middle transition segment. ;)

Third, made my stuff sound good like Gui's this time! lol. Just kidding. Honestly though I think it's an improvement. Made use of my Lexicon effects processor for the first time. For those complaining earlier in the thread that I needed reverb, well... complain no more.

@Strat -- I take issue with the fact that you think my samples/patches aren't that good. I thought they were excellent. Anyway hopefully now their alleged suckiness will be covered up by all the reverb. Damnit.

p.s. -- Comments welcome, but please try to make them positive this time, if not downright exaltational... Otherwise I may have to kill you.

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#83 Post by StratCaster » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:11 pm

well, I have to say, as far as synth patches that are trying to simulate real instruments.....I haven't heard anything that even compares to sample technology. That being said, I think with the right tweaks you can make *anything* sound good. And mostly that has to do with dynamic range, phrasing and 'note-off' techniques. Reverb should help with the latter because it creates a decay even if one isn't present (simulating an acoustical sound). The others are harder to pull off especially without a keyboard or midi instrument.... meaning you have to draw this stuff in manually...ugh-but possible... although some prefer that method.
"The mighty warships of the Vl'Hurg Empire dived screaming upon the unknowing Earth, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog." -Hitchhikers Guide

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LithiumMongoose
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#84 Post by LithiumMongoose » Sun Jul 03, 2005 2:54 pm

A lot of the patches on my hardware *are* sample-based. Not sure about the ones involved here specifically.

I'm not necessarily trying to simulate real instruments... I'm trying to make the end result sound good. I'd actually just as soon avoid real instruments when possible cuz I hold a grudge against them for being so impossible to write for when specifically trying to write for them.

Dare I ask what you think of the new file? :)

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One thing that does wonders....

#85 Post by guiguibaah » Mon Jul 04, 2005 2:41 am

I've never used one, but I am told one thing that can really make anything sound exceptional is a breath controller. I'll have to do more research on that topic to find out the mechanics behind it.
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#86 Post by StratCaster » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:20 am

yes breath controllers work wonders. Actually, any controller can. If you even put the note data in by hand and then go back and record the controller seperately that works well.

i.e.

-input notes by hand (although then you have even durations which is another problem entirely)

-then set mod wheel to a controller like expression or volume

-then hit overdub (record) and perform the mod wheel where ever makes sense. You can do volume swells, cresendos, decres etc....

Now that I think of it, depending on your sequencer, you could probably set it to record durations & velocity as well...

i.e.

-input notes by hand

-set your sequencer to record duration only

-click overdub and record

-hit one note on the keyboard for every note you hear, and perform it the way you want to hear it.
"The mighty warships of the Vl'Hurg Empire dived screaming upon the unknowing Earth, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog." -Hitchhikers Guide

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#87 Post by StratCaster » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:49 am

I'm not necessarily trying to simulate real instruments
You misunderstand when I say real instruments opposed to computer music. I mean a real *sound*, opposed to blips and bleeps of a synthetic machine. Notes that have no dynamics or no phrasings are VERY noticeable to the human ear. It can sound repetitive or like a computer is performing the music. When every note is exactly a full duration and all velocities are the same, even too much in-time, it just sounds wrong. Obviously not always, but in certain situations it stands out. And it certainly depends on the patch or sample. And you may not hear it because you are writing it, you are too close to it. I've written things and people have told me something sounded weird and I didn't understand. Its hard to hear it with un-bias ears.... that's what friends are for...

Starlight..... the reverb seems to do the trick with the breaks. When everyone cuts off there is a decent decay. Reverb fixes all...

I like the added voicings as well, sounds much fuller. Although it is kinda long.. over 10 minutes.. maybe that won't seem long to someone playing a game though.

I thought you liked criticism.....?
"The mighty warships of the Vl'Hurg Empire dived screaming upon the unknowing Earth, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog." -Hitchhikers Guide

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#88 Post by StratCaster » Wed Jul 06, 2005 3:33 pm

StratCaster wrote: When every note is exactly a full duration and all velocities are the same, even too much in-time, it just sounds wrong.
I meant to say in your case it was just the 'note off' that sounded harsh.

Meaning, a normal acoustical sound has decay, even if a player mutes or shuts off a note. Acoustically speaking, the note that was played is traveling in the room after the attack and eventually disapating. So when I heard your synth patch come to a break, it literally sounded to me like someone pulled the plug on a machine making a sound. The sound was instantly gone. And as soon as I heard it I was like...that was very mechanical and not very organic. However, I have that exact patch sound, I know the patch versitlity by itself isn't that great. It needs help... like the reverb you gave it makes it sound a lot better.

I could have said "it just needs some reverb", but that would have been too easy. Although techincally that's a different issue.....:)

here's a cool article: http://www.ethanwiner.com/realism.html
"The mighty warships of the Vl'Hurg Empire dived screaming upon the unknowing Earth, where due to a terrible miscalculation of scale the entire battle fleet was accidentally swallowed by a small dog." -Hitchhikers Guide

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#89 Post by LithiumMongoose » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:19 pm

StratCaster wrote:I mean a real *sound*, opposed to blips and bleeps of a synthetic machine.
Blips and bleeps are awesome. A good chunk of my favorite music ever is from old NES and SNES games (and at least one modern one, Final Fantasy Tactics Advance). I love the way that stuff sounds. Speaking of which, do you or anyone happen to know if you can get soundfonts or something for the sounds the SNES and especially the NES generate?
StratCaster wrote:I like the added voicings as well, sounds much fuller. Although it is kinda long.. over 10 minutes.. maybe that won't seem long to someone playing a game though.
AI is equally long and no one ever complained about the length there. I know, I know, that's probably cuz it's a better track, but still. :p

Sides, if I had my way background tracks would be 20 minutes long or worse, and I'd like to have as many good ones as possible, so, umm, yeah...

Btw Jeffrey thought I was overusing the cymbal thing in Requiem. He might be right. I dunno, I have a few ideas left to try, but atm I feel more like going back and adding reverb to everything else. <evil laughter>
StratCaster wrote:I thought you liked criticism.....?
In theory, yes. However, there are days when all you want to hear is how wonderful and awesome you are... Speaking of which, Strat, where are my palm fronds?

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sNES stuff

#90 Post by guiguibaah » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:15 am

Yeah the NES and SNES music (mostly Konami) had some really good music in there. In fact - if you go to http://www.ocremix.org you will notice that a lot of the really GOOD remixes are done using Konami music... Life Force, Contra, Metal Gear, etc...
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