Random diplomatic brainfart

For what's not in 'Top Priority Game Design'. Post your ideas, visions, suggestions for the game, rules, modifications, etc.

Moderators: Oberlus, Oberlus

Post Reply
Message
Author
Sapphire Wyvern
Space Kraken
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Random diplomatic brainfart

#1 Post by Sapphire Wyvern » Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:44 am

I had a strange thought the other day.

I thought, "What if there were a level of diplomatic closeness above allied?"

Call it "Federation" (or other title if you prefer). The two empires are effectively merged. They have single combined PP & RP pools, and a single build queue for the entire empire. However, each player still retains the ability to give orders for the combined empire. (The game would still track who owns what planets, ships, etc for the purposes of a "divorce settlement" if the Federation breaks up).

Interesting idea? Or useless, overcomplicated, impossible to implement sillyness?

Penny for your thoughts.

The_Commentator
Space Floater
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:02 pm

#2 Post by The_Commentator » Wed Nov 16, 2005 2:29 am

In the real world it's unrealistic for even the smallest country to completely give up their soverignty to a larger country [That only happens in the Federation in Star Trek, lol]. But I think you're definetly onto a real world concept.

What about a commonwealth?

A commonwealth in FreeOrion means that a much weaker allied civ surrenders a large percentage of their annual resources [it's a constant contribution] to you in exchange for your military forces defending them. You have complete control over building Military Units, and Military Units only at all of their planets.

Commonwealths only last as long as that country needs military defense--i.e., when they become powerful enough to defend themselves, they politely take back their military capacities and are very greatful, formidable allies.

--T.C.

Sapphire Wyvern
Space Kraken
Posts: 149
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 3:25 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

#3 Post by Sapphire Wyvern » Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:42 am

The_Commentator wrote:In the real world it's unrealistic for even the smallest country to completely give up their soverignty to a larger country [That only happens in the Federation in Star Trek, lol]. But I think you're definetly onto a real world concept.
Or, in fact, real-world "federations" such as the United States of America (think about that name for a moment), Germany and Australia, where a number of independant "states" (kingdoms in the case of Germany) have surrendered large parts of their power to a common "Federal" government. :) Note that in my proposal, neither player gives up control; they instead both have control, which would be rather difficult to manage (actually, probably impossible given the client/server model of FreeOrion).
What about a commonwealth?

A commonwealth in FreeOrion means that a much weaker allied civ surrenders a large percentage of their annual resources [it's a constant contribution] to you in exchange for your military forces defending them. You have complete control over building Military Units, and Military Units only at all of their planets.

Commonwealths only last as long as that country needs military defense--i.e., when they become powerful enough to defend themselves, they politely take back their military capacities and are very greatful, formidable allies.

--T.C.
Yeah, pretty much the same thing really, only less symmetrical. All in all I think my original proposal is far more trouble than it's worth.

The_Commentator
Space Floater
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:02 pm

#4 Post by The_Commentator » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:19 am

The Original proposal may be "more trouble than it's worth", but don't give up on this, I think it's a good idea! I don't know any other empire building game [much less a complete 4X] that has the option to create a federation or a commonwealth with an AI ally. Picture such a cool dipolmatic option unique only to FreeOrion. :D

--T.C.

Robin J. Cartwright
Space Krill
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 5:55 am

#5 Post by Robin J. Cartwright » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:20 am

Rather than giving each player control over each other's empires, which would be awkward & difficult to implement, each player could maintain control over their own empire but use something like the orion senate/united planets/UN from Moo3, galciv & civ4 to manage common affairs (like diplomacy or warfare). There could be several levels of regional integration:

Regional organizaiton: Like the Arab League, Organization of American States or European Union. All member empires maintain full independance, can wage war & make peace with each other, etc. Members of the organization can vote for rules governing how they interact with each other, punishing particular empires, etc. Like the Orion Senate or United Planets, except its not necessarily galaxy wide and there can be multiple different regional organizations (eg. one for this side of the galaxy & another for that side of the galaxy, or one for each set of competing allies).

Confederation: For purposes of diplomacy all member empires are merged together into one but each player maintains control of his/her own planets, fleets, etc. in all other respects. Players vote on whether to accept or reject diplomatic agreements, declare war and on all other diplomatic decisions, but otherwise maintain a large amount of autonomy with regard to running their own empire.

Federation: The member empires are merged for both diplomatic & military purposes. All players lose control of their military forces to the federation. Members elect a President who takes control of all military forces and possibly has other powers as well. The federation could also vote to tax member empires to fund the military (or other things) and have greater power to intervene in the internal affairs of member empires. Players would still control their empire, but a lot of control would be handed over to the federation.
I don't know any other empire building game [much less a complete 4X] that has the option to create a federation or a commonwealth with an AI ally.
In birth of the federation you can persuade minor races to voluntarily become members of your empire. That's something I'd like to see incorporated into this game. IMO, BOTF handled minor races very well & freeorion would do well to imitate elements of it.
What about a commonwealth?

A commonwealth in FreeOrion means that a much weaker allied civ surrenders a large percentage of their annual resources [it's a constant contribution] to you in exchange for your military forces defending them. You have complete control over building Military Units, and Military Units only at all of their planets.
I likethat idea, but I think it should be called a protectorate instead of a commonwealth. Sounds better.

The_Commentator
Space Floater
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:02 pm

#6 Post by The_Commentator » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:59 am

Works for me

User avatar
Yoghurt
Programmer
Posts: 376
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2003 8:17 pm
Location: Heidelberg, Germany

#7 Post by Yoghurt » Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:45 pm

I still find it better that peoples could make treaties with each other, for example, transferring command of particular fleets to another player (for as long as the treaty stays in effect).

This way is more flexible than requiring an alliance for this to be possible. If some of my enemies wants to start a war against the best-defended player, why not give him some of my obsolete ships and tell them these are some of my state-of-the-art ships as a gesture of peace and then laughing when he gets destroyed in a war between him and the bigger player. Or, if he succeeds in a truce with him, and attacks me, because he "knows" my defenses are sub-par, he will be surprised that my "state-of-the-art" flag ships were actually ships used for garbage dumping.

The_Commentator
Space Floater
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:02 pm

#8 Post by The_Commentator » Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:18 pm

Transfering fleets is a great idea, but it doesn't have the same diplomatic effects that a commonwealth/federation/protectorate would :lol: .

Think about it: you're a player--watching the map because you're about to crush a smaller empire and you want to enjoy every inch of border gained as you win. Suddenly that empire is absorbed into a much larger empire. You click quickly to stop your fleets short of the border--just short of igniting a diplomatic incident which would almost certainly destroy you. Just like that the hunter becomes the prey.

Food for thought
--T.C.

Post Reply