Recalibrating Population & Production

Creation, discussion, and balancing of game content such as techs, buildings, ship parts.

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Bigjoe5
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#121 Post by Bigjoe5 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:09 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:That said, an "auto boost X resource output" button on the main map toolbar could be added. This would work like auto colonize / invade, and would automatically pick a planet to switch to X focus for the player. Would likely solve many of the complaints and requests for planet management tools, would be useful for players (like you?) who change focus to bump up a research output indiscriminately, and shouldn't be too hard to implement.
Since when do we have/want auto-colonize/invade?
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#122 Post by Geoff the Medio » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:13 pm

By "auto" I meant "one click". For the resource outputs, it would be click-to-increment by one planet when the player doesn't care which planet or exactly how much.

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eleazar
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#123 Post by eleazar » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:38 pm

At the moment, i'm inclined to kick the can, and just put in "reasonable" values for production boosters without worrying what they add up to. Probably higher than 100, but much less than 1000.

Then i can stop holding up the release, and we can worry about it later.

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Vezzra
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#124 Post by Vezzra » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:26 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:
Vezzra wrote:
Geoff the Medio wrote:...I re-suggest considering using bonuses that aren't population dependent, or that are population dependent but capped at a max value...
As in: increases industry by one tenth of the planets population, but not more than 10 (for example)?
Yes, though probably slightly rephrased. Not sure how best to say it to make clear that the increase is at most 10, rather than the final value of the meter is at most 10.
Interesting idea, but I wonder if implementing this concept might defeat the tech tree providing the pop boosts to a certain degree. What's the point in researching further pop boosting techs once additional pop doesn't result in a boost to the resource meters?

Then we can as well reduce max pop numbers, one of the options eleazar suggested:
eleazar wrote:Return max population significantly below 100
Less complicated.

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eleazar
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#125 Post by eleazar » Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:23 pm

revision 5698

"Adjusting research boosters to approximately reasonable levels. Not playtested. Descriptions should all be accurate."

All boosters are now additive, not multiplied, and the bonuses are generally smaller, and increase in magnitude less as you progress through the tree. To add variety, a couple things don't require research focus to take effect.

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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#126 Post by qsswin » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:10 pm

It looks like you removed the bonus for research on depleted ancient ruins...

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Sloth
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#127 Post by Sloth » Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:34 pm

eleazar wrote:To add variety, a couple things don't require research focus to take effect.
Distributed Thought Computing is really, really powerful now. Giving the normal Research Focus bonus to all your planets could be overpowered.
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eleazar
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#128 Post by eleazar » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:00 pm

qsswin wrote:It looks like you removed the bonus for research on depleted ancient ruins...
Sloth wrote:Distributed Thought Computing is really, really powerful now. Giving the normal Research Focus bonus to all your planets could be overpowered.
revision 5699.
"fixed depeleted ruins giving no tech boost, and halved distributed thought's research bonus."

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eleazar
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#129 Post by eleazar » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:13 pm

revision 5700.
"Tweaking production boosters, and matching descriptions to function."

It was way easier once i stopped trying to achieve multiple mutually exclusive goals. That can be resumed after the next release.

Production values haven't changed much since i ripped out infrastructure, happily, most of the values were more or less reasonable.

The current status is far from ideal, and there are a lot of things i'd like to change, but none of them are simple Subject to playthroughs and bug-finding, i think this is good enough to look at releasing.

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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#130 Post by Sloth » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:29 pm

eleazar wrote: Production values haven't changed much since i ripped out infrastructure, happily, most of the values were more or less reasonable.
Yes, the only thing that bugged me was the insane Cultural Archives bonus, but you fixed that. Thumbs up!
eleazar wrote:The current status is far from ideal, and there are a lot of things i'd like to change, but none of them are simple Subject to playthroughs and bug-finding, i think this is good enough to look at releasing.
I think most PP and RP costs are too low in general (and could be doubled or something), but maybe that can wait until after the release of 0.4.2.
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#131 Post by eleazar » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:44 pm

Sloth wrote:
eleazar wrote:The current status is far from ideal, and there are a lot of things i'd like to change, but none of them are simple Subject to playthroughs and bug-finding, i think this is good enough to look at releasing.
I think most PP and RP costs are too low in general (and could be doubled or something), but maybe that can wait until after the release of 0.4.2.
Without species or special bonuses, industry by my calculations can go up to about +550 for 100 population planets. That's ~50 times what your homeworld produces at the beginning of the game, so i don't think they are too low in total-- the opposite in fact. There are probably too many empire-wide production bonuses (10), and the large number of bonuses with the effect described per population unit makes them seem small.

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#132 Post by Geoff the Medio » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:48 pm

eleazar wrote:...i think this is good enough to look at releasing.
Vezzra's expected Monday builds can be RC1 then... So everyone get in your patches before then, and eleazar please review any leftover patches from Sloth or unjashfan and commit the ones you want.
Sloth wrote:I think most PP and RP costs are too low in general (and could be doubled or something), but maybe that can wait until after the release of 0.4.2.
eleazar wrote:...i don't think [industry bonuses] are too low in total-- the opposite in fact. There are probably too many empire-wide production bonuses (10).
Sloth was talking about costs, not bonuses. I think you agree with him?

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eleazar
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#133 Post by eleazar » Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:52 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:Sloth was talking about costs, not bonuses. I think you agree with him?
Sorry, reading failure. I don't know, recent changes decreased research production. I haven't playtested recent changes yet. I would not be surprised if it was true.

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Vezzra
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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#134 Post by Vezzra » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:18 am

Geoff the Medio wrote:Vezzra's expected Monday builds can be RC1 then... So everyone get in your patches before then, and eleazar please review any leftover patches from Sloth or unjashfan and commit the ones you want.
Ok, I'll prepare to release my Monday builds as RC1. I'll change the version strings accordingly to 0.4.2, create the 0.4.2 release folder on SF and upload the RC1 releases there. The deadline for patches and commits is Monday 19:00 CET (UTC+1), unless some reasons come up to postpone the release (to squeeze in an important patch etc.). In this case just send me a PM (either eleazar or you) and tell me if I should just delay it until Tuesday, or if I should cancel the RC1 release and make normal test releases instead (in case you want to postpone RC1 long enough that it makes sense to produce another test release in the meantime).

We should also ask Nagilum to produce the RC releases for Linux.

Everyone ok with this "course of action"? :D

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Re: Recalibrating Population & Production

#135 Post by eleazar » Sun Feb 03, 2013 5:40 pm

Sounds good to me.

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