git why bigger fonts?

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pheldens
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git why bigger fonts?

#1 Post by pheldens » Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:46 pm

It solves nothing, theres barely enough space on a 1920 * 1200 screen as it is for all the disorganized popup windows.
At 100 ppi the 12 ish fontsize was fine before.

This game is data intensive large fonts don't fit this. Or is this just a transition effect going to scalable ui?

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Geoff the Medio
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#2 Post by Geoff the Medio » Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:15 pm

You can adjust it back to 12 pt if you want, in the UI options tab.

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Ouaz
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#3 Post by Ouaz » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:21 pm

Yep, I'm also asking myself if this new UI default font size is intended?

(15pts for text, 16pts for window title, instead of respectively 12 and 12 for both).

This new font size breaks a lot of text display, and makes the UI looks very messy/overloaded.

Ex:
font_new_size.gif
font_new_size.gif (17.05 KiB) Viewed 1200 times
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MatGB
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#4 Post by MatGB » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:53 pm

Yeah, I went straight to reducing it back down, it's far too big for me (and I'm using a 1080 monitor), I don't like the change nor the default at all.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#5 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:54 pm

Ouaz wrote:Yep, I'm also asking myself if this new UI default font size is intended?
Very much so. 12 point font is too small and hard to read for me, using a laptop screen (1920x1080). 15 point is on the low side of reasonable and readable. If you're using a huge 25+ inch monitor, and are used to the smaller size, that might change the perception, but do please give it a try beyond noting the cases where background don't enclose the text or button labels are too long.
This new font size breaks a lot of text display...
That's expected, but also part of the benefit of changing the default, as now the places where it doesn't adjust well for the font size changing can be identified and reported and fixed.
...and makes the UI looks very messy/overloaded.
To me, the default font makes the UI look overly complicated and densely packed with far too much information, yet simultaneously have needless empty / blank spaces. Particularly for newer players, this would make it a lot harder to understand what's going on.

It's a bit hard to interpret posted screenshots due to the forum apparently resizing them larger for me (forcing horizontal scrolling and blurring details), buy for me:
15pt_font.png
15 point font
15pt_font.png (330.54 KiB) Viewed 1186 times
12pt_font.png
12 point font
12pt_font.png (276.7 KiB) Viewed 1186 times

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Ouaz
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#6 Post by Ouaz » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:23 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:15 point is on the low side of reasonable and readable. If you're using a huge 25+ inch monitor, and are used to the smaller size, that might change the perception, but do please give it a try beyond noting the cases where background don't enclose the text or button labels are too long.
I did it (my screen size is 1366x768). I can understand your point of view, but the 15pt size makes FO look like a smartphone app.

I'm not sure a bigger font size makes the game easier to understand/discover for a newcomer. There will still be a lot of text and numbers, and you have to scroll and resize things even more (especially in pedia), that's why I said it makes the UI looks like overloaded (on my screen though)

In my opinion, I think the problem is more the default line height & icon size (which makes the UI a little bit "squeezed", I'm agree, especially in tables like the Objects or the Producible Items), than the font size itself. Here's some comparison for the planet sidepanel, between the default 12 points font size, the new default 15 pts size, and a mockup of the 12pts size with the 15pt line height/icon size: (I was lazy to do the whole main screen :p)
font_size_comp.gif
font_size_comp.gif (76.51 KiB) Viewed 1150 times
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#7 Post by Geoff the Medio » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:38 pm

Ouaz wrote:In my opinion, I think the problem is more the default line height & icon size (which makes the UI a little bit "squeezed", I'm agree, especially in tables like the Objects or the Producible Items), than the font size itself.
The problem with the previous (12 pt) or the current (15 pt) font?
Here's some comparison for the planet sidepanel, between the default 12 points font size, the new default 15 pts size, and a mockup of the 12pts size with the 15pt line height/icon size:
Not sure what your point is... which do you prefer?

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Ouaz
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#8 Post by Ouaz » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:17 pm

Geoff the Medio wrote:The problem with the previous (12 pt) or the current (15 pt) font?
The problem was with the previous font size 12 pts. Line height value and icons are too small. With the 15 pts font size, line height value and icons are bigger and make the UI more spacious (airy, less dense and squeezed), but I find the font itself too big (and DejaVu font is ugly in big size).
A good compromise would be the bigger line height (that automatically makes icons bigger too), but the 12 pts font size is kept.
Geoff the Medio wrote:
Here's some comparison for the planet sidepanel, between the default 12 points font size, the new default 15 pts size, and a mockup of the 12pts size with the 15pt line height/icon size:
Not sure what your point is... which do you prefer?
The third one: Bigger line height and icon size, but the font size is still 12 pts.

I made another example with the producible items table:

- Defaut 12 pts: too squeezed

- New default 15 pts: font too big, but line height and icon size are better.

- 12 pts with 15 pts line height value: same line height and icon size than above, but the font size is set to 12 pts.
font_size_comp2.gif
font_size_comp2.gif (43.36 KiB) Viewed 1147 times
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The Silent One
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#9 Post by The Silent One » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:37 am

Ouaz wrote:- 12 pts with 15 pts line height value: same line height and icon size than above, but the font size is set to 12 pts.
I'm also not so fond of the bigger font size. This arrangement looks good though.
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Scara
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#10 Post by Scara » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:02 pm

Didn't notice the change as I load my favorite config by commandline on first start and set font sizes to 11 with 1920x1200 resolution.
I like a bit smaller Text and room in the middle :)
My actual Config suits me fine, the frames around the producible list items text might have a bit more spacing. Is the line height adjustable in config?
Some examples:
exmp1.png
exmp1.png (101.17 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
exmp2.png
exmp2.png (52.87 KiB) Viewed 1125 times
exmp3.png
exmp3.png (226.04 KiB) Viewed 1125 times

LGM-Doyle
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#11 Post by LGM-Doyle » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:42 pm

For the record I like 12 pts with 12 pts line height.

Perhaps we could choose a font size to line spacing ratio that looks good and then allow
players to zoom the UI independently of the map zoom. We could add hotkeys Alt+- and Alt++.

Everyone can read comfortably and quickly adjust all the fonts with an intuitive bigger/smaller
interface without every menu maybe/maybe not having a setting in the options.

P.S. I used to program in 8 pt font. I don't anymore.

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Bromstarzan
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#12 Post by Bromstarzan » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:54 pm

So I just left the 150901 build and installed testbuild 160321.
The fonts do mess up a lot, even if I set them back to 12/12, there's still strings the player can't set, right? At least some of the tabs and titles are not optional in the options menu?
The "nail" and "close-cross/X" is also unnecessarily big now... Also, the system stats window is now wider to the extent that I cannot (optimally) place 2 info-windows side by side anymore (using 2 monitors). I liked it the way it was in 150901, although I realize there might be some real benefits with the update. I'll post more specifics to clarify when I get the chance to take a few screenshots, if it would be useful.
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Geoff the Medio
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#13 Post by Geoff the Medio » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:01 pm

Bromstarzan wrote:The fonts do mess up a lot, even if I set them back to 12/12...
Some parts of the layout require restarting the program to take account of different font sizes; have you done that, or are you just observing what happens when changing the font size in the GUI while it's running?
...there's still strings the player can't set, right? At least some of the tabs and titles are not optional in the options menu?
What you mean by this is not clear, but see above.
The "nail" and "close-cross/X" is also unnecessarily big now...
Even after a restart after changing the font size?
Also, the system stats window is now wider to the extent that I cannot place 2 info-windows side by side anymore.
This can be resized using the bottom-right resize tab.

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Bromstarzan
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#14 Post by Bromstarzan » Wed Mar 23, 2016 4:05 pm

Geoff, I didn't restart - will do.
[EDIT:] Yep, it works fine, I just assumed the change would apply when continuing same session, my bad.

Also, very nice to see in the newer builds; the preservation of window positions! Super-nice work!
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ghealy
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Re: git why bigger fonts?

#15 Post by ghealy » Wed Apr 13, 2016 8:59 pm

How would one set font to 12 with a line height to 15 using the current GUI ( i.e. not changing code directly)?

TIA

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